Morris Commercial C4

Rolf S. Ask · #1 13-07-04, 00:36

Just to show of....
No actually just to show you chaps, taht there si a little bit more than Canadian stuff to take care of. Got this one home last friday.
Have no dataplates for it. It has a 12V generator and has "27 J 4" casted on the sylinder top whatever that means.

Will be needing a bit of work and many parts to complete but hey, thats what our hobby is all abouth..

Rolf

PS: Mike, do you want any pictures and the little info I can get out of it?

Richard Farrant · #2 13-07-04, 01:08

Hi Rolf,

Nice find ! The first restoration I got involved in was a 1943 C4 compressor truck. Seem to remember there was a data plate on the engine side of bulkhead near to the carburettor and the contract number plate on the dashboard passenger side. I think the chassis number was stamped in a rear spring hanger bracket, going back 25 years now so could be wrong.....

Richard

David_Hayward (RIP) · #3 13-07-04, 08:08

27th October 1944?

Hanno Spoelstra · #4 13-07-04, 08:43

Rolf,

Nice find!
Pity the rear body is missing, or is this going to be Überrest, der Umbau-Wagen?

Cheers,
Hanno

(Picture source: "The Wehrmacht's Umbau-Wagen", Wheels & Tracks issue No. 30, p.20-27)

Rolf S. Ask · #5 13-07-04, 10:54

be checking out the rear spring hanger for any numbers Richard. Didn't find anything on the engine, but will check once more.
David as usual you might be into something. Perhaps Mike can tell us?
And Hanno, I have always wanted a MV with more than two seats, (I know I have the CGT and a jeep) but think I will go for a CMP if I am going to be making an "Überrest".... The Morris is a bit to far between here in Norway to do such a thing with, but would be nice......

Rolf

Hanno Spoelstra · #6 13-07-04, 13:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Rolf S. Ask
be checking out the rear spring hanger for any numbers Richard. Didn't find anything on the engine, but will check once more.

Rolf,

Here are some actual numbers off a surviving C4, so you know what sort of numbers you're looking for:

On rear spring hanger:
C4
2280GS917
Engine: ELA58447
Gearbox: GN95242
Front axle: FHC32792
Rear axle: BVB82337

As for the Überrest option - I recall a story of a chap who found a Morris-Commercial Umbau-Wagen in Norway....

H.

Rolf S. Ask · #7 13-07-04, 17:03

and found the serial number on the rear spring hanger, but not looking like "yours" Hanno.
It is "GS 2280434" And on the rear axle "BVB 81773 657"
So both numbers are a bit earlier than those you cotes.

Regarding the story of the umbauwagen in Norway it would of course be very interesting to know some more. Perhaps I will be able to find the chap and find something more abouth the vehicle, and maybe maybe a picture of it....

Rolf

Mike Kelly · #8 13-07-04, 17:24

hi Rolf,

What a great find . There was another Morris 15 cwt owner in Norway , here his his email from a few years back . Maybe you know this fellow ? I think he is an officer in the Norwegian army ?

Have you checked the wheelbase of that C4 yet ? There were two versions , the Mk 2 was slightly longer , i have seen pics of the Mk2 with GS body and the spare wheel mounted betwen the cab and body . From the pic , you may have a mk 1 .

I have never seen a C4 here , only CS8's . Yes, I would like more pics , and any info you can find out about the vehicle .

The manuals are available from rob Van Meel . The MCC manuals are not that good , but better than nothing . It should have the small headlights and sidelights ect.

Good Luck

Mike

PS Is it the same vehicle , the red one you had some time back ?

Quote:

From: Steffen Karlsen
Sent : Thursday, 31 October 2002 1:17:17 PM
To:vk3cz@hotmail.com
Subject : Morris CS8 15cwt

Hello.

My father has reasently bought a Morris CS8. He (and I) plan to restore it to good condition. As far as we know it is one of only two known examples who has surwived in Norway. This one is belived to be brought to Norway by the Germans. Probably captured early in the war. I am no expert on second world war, but my father is. (I am an officer in the army.. but he is the history expert.)

I hope that it is posible for you to send some information about the CS8 and where it is posible to get parts, tips and other things that we nead.
It would also be great if you could send the part list that you have scanned.

We have previously only restored an American Ford GPW ("Jeep". American parts and information is easily obtained because the "Jeep" and other american vehicles has been used in the Norwegian Army.

Sinserely yours

Steffen Karlsen

Rolf S. Ask · #9 13-07-04, 18:51

mail en route to you.

Will try to find Mr. Karlsen.

My C4 has the spare wheel carrier between the body and the cab so I guess it is a Mk II.

Guess I'll have to do some work to search out all the Morris Commercials left in Norway.

Don't know if you David are into serialnumbers for MC's but here is another... "C4 2280GS553" to be rebuild in a Year or two.

R

Rolf S. Ask · #10 13-07-04, 18:54

that I am very interessted in the light you might have. I will be needing many part, and all instruments for it....

R

Richard Farrant · #11 13-07-04, 22:20

Just for comparison, the numbers of the Mk1 C4 compressor that I had dealings with was chassis, 2169 C4 543, we were given to understand the 543 meant May 1943, which would not have been far out. This vehicle even had its original engine, borne out by the data plate where number coincided with that on the block.

The chassis numbers quoted in the thread do not quite look the same as this one, the last group not easily showing a defined build date.

Richard

Rolf S. Ask · #12 14-07-04, 00:05

Have got a number on a wireless C4.
2202WT3153
So Richard I guss your right when saying it is not the date of delivery.

R

Mike Kelly · #13 14-07-04, 17:29

As far as I have worked out MCC used the following numbering system stamped on the rear spring hanger

The first group is the sanction number

The second denotes the model CS8-C4 ect.

The third group is the actual chassis number ( not a date )

I and R. Ballard have a sort of unofficial register of MCC chassis numbers , mostly CS8 and PU models .

What is interesting is, the WT or GS stamp , which apparently denotes the body style on the C4's . This is news to me .

BTW , I have found CS8 chassis numbers up to 18 ,000 here in Australia , these late production trucks all have the late cab , with doors . Rory tells me that total CS8 production was around 21, 000 . I dont have any numbers for C4 production , or the date that C4 production began .

Mike

PS Dirk Leegwater has new headlights NOS for your C4

The sidelights are small , with a frosted glass . I have 3 NOS ones , but not for sale ! I will look out for more .

The instruments are rather hard to find , I have not found many spare over the years . The ones in situ in the trucks are usually U/S or damaged from weathering . The Ammeter is a simple design, but very hard to find .

The autovacs are a little tricky to set up , but not very complicated really .

Mike Kelly · #14 14-07-04, 18:07

Rolf

These are the sidelights and axle lamp you need

marked L WD S

Mike

Rolf S. Ask · #15 15-07-04, 00:37

I do have such sidelamps laying arround somwhere. They was mounted on my C60S cab # 12. Guess I'll have to be a detective to morrow....
And will check out with Mr. Leegwater abouth headlights.

Will try send those pictures for you one by one...

Rolf

Hanno Spoelstra · #16 16-11-04, 23:56

Here's a picture of the remains of what I think is a Morris-Commercial, most likely captured by the German Army in France and then used by them in Norway.

Source: http://www.arcticwar.com/ > Reports > REPORT VIII The Last Stand Tour (June 2002)
Caption: "War department 1939" the text on the one remaining tyre reads. The engine seemed to be a General Motors (the engine is marked 8387 GM) but what make was the vehicle?
Photo: Lars Gyllenhaal

Rolf S. Ask · #17 17-11-04, 00:06

Yes Hanno there are some thing sugesting some MC's where brought to Norway by the Germans.
But then not as Umbauwagens, but aws made in the factory.
Of course there might have been some Umbaus, but most of the MC's have remains of their original body.
Will investigate further during the winter.

Rolf