1937 Chevy ute, Aust. army

[Mike Kelly]

Pic dated 1937 . Interesting seeing the pre-war uniform of the signals chap .

http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemL...x?itemID=20987

http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemL...x?itemID=20984

http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemD...x?itemID=23237

Title
Mobile address system, 2nd Military District Base

Level of Description Item

Date of Work
2/11/1937

Type of Material Graphic Materials

Call Number
Home and Away - 16400

Physical Description Photographs : 1 film photonegative (copied from original nitrate photonegative) ; 35 mm.



Supplementary Identifiers
Original item no. NCY39/287

General Note
2nd Military District base

Topic Chevrolet (utility trucks)
defence force bases
public-address systems
utility trucks

Place Victoria Barracks (Paddington, N.S.W.)

Digital order no.
hood_16400

[Mike Kelly]

Showing standard civvy 1940 trucks with chrome

http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemL...x?itemID=88225

[Lang]

Mike,

No wonder the girls went for the yanks - is there a worse uniform than the Australian WW2 effort!

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Lang

Mike,

No wonder the girls went for the yanks - is there a worse uniform than the Australian WW2 effort!

A case of one size fits all

[Marc van Aalderen]

I do like the hats though!

Cheers,

[Mike Kelly]

http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemD...x?itemID=29950

[Mike Cecil]

Interesting, Mike.

The 15Cwt Chev ute appears to have a wireless in the back: do you recognise it? Same question applies to the 2 Div Sigs vehicle in the last image. (I think the caption '1 Field Cadre RAA' might actually be 'Cadre Staff, 1 Field Regiment, RAA', perhaps?)

The 'peacetime/pre-mobilisation' markings on the doors are interesting, as is the pre-uniform Commonwealth registration scheme number plate (D^D 117). The vehicle later transferred from the D^D scheme to the Commonwealth scheme when it commenced in early 1939, and became C-117.

The 3 tonners have rather strange (ie non standard for either the Commonwealth or AIF registration schemes) registration plates: wonder if they are impressed civilian lorries, yet to be 'militerised' with a thick coat of KG3 paint?


Mike C

[Mike Kelly]

Yes Mike

The GMC 3 Tonners or 30 cwt or whatever would be civvy trucks impressed . At that stage they would have been grabbing near new civvy vehicles from disgruntled owners. I believe they took or prefered 1939 and 40 Ford and GM models excusively, being almost new trucks then. While buying parts years ago I met a old chap who related a few stories . He had just bought a new Chevy truck as the war began. He said it was taken from him , and he never saw it again.

I think the wireless set in the back of the staff car may be a British No. 1 set . It's too early to be a Australian AWA built 101 set , which were a somewhat similar set. We got a very small number of no. 1 sets pre-war, issued to each state. There is a pic of one in the AWM collection, in Hobart of all places.

Not sure what the device is in the ute . There is another pic ...

[Mike Cecil]

Mike,

The exclusive (near-exclusive) use of Ford and Chev powered vehicles in the late 30s and the early part of WW2 was a Defence dept policy called the 'two engine policy', which saw (1) the purchase of Ford and Chev vehicles by Army exclusively until the demand exceeded the supply, and it was relaxed and (2) impressment of Ford and Chev powered vehicles as the 'first round' of impressment. Again, when demand exceeded supply, the policy was relaxed.

Mike C

[Mike Kelly]

The poor resolution pic is a No. 1 set in South Aust. 1938. Woodside barracks ? . They are wearing pre-war militia uniforms ? with leather bandoleers .

The British mounted them in tiny Austin 7's

[Lang]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Yes Mike

The GMC 3 Tonners or 30 cwt or whatever would be civvy trucks impressed . At that stage they would have been grabbing near new civvy vehicles from disgruntled owners. I believe they took or prefered 1939 and 40 Ford and GM models excusively, being almost new trucks then. While buying parts years ago I met a old chap who related a few stories . He had just bought a new Chevy truck as the war began. He said it was taken from him , and he never saw it again.

Mike,

I think a lot of people get the idea the government just knocked on your door, took the keys and drove off in your impressed vehicle. Impressed vehicles were paid for at above the average market price. Some vehicles (and other impressed items and property) which were useable were offered back to the owners when the government had finished with them.

They of course had a list of owners and took vehicles in priority (devised by bureacrats) of those least able to prove their use was in the wider national interest, hence impressed vehicles were allocated to government departments, farmers and manufacturers engaged in essential services to fill gaps in supply, not just the military. It would have p...d you off to see the bloke down the road using your truck because he had a contract with the government.

[Mike Kelly]

this one shows the whole number plate

http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemD...x?itemID=88233

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

A case of one size fits all

Last month a QM guy helpfully informed me that all uniforms are now available in size 2. Too big, too small and too bad.

[Mike Cecil]

That made me laugh!

Whole number plate: well, it's a Commonwealth reg plate (it has the red 'C' at the start), but is at some variance to the specs. Plates were issued by the Department of the Interior, so they are usually pretty uniform, but these are way off target! Always something new to learn.....

Mike C

[Local Chap]

There's guidelines, and then there's Local Practice! Pre-WW2, each State used number plates (enamelled, screenprinted, painted, stamped or cast) for local registration that differed in size, style and font from state to state. If each Military District was responsible for issuing plates that were painted, some sort of local style may have crept in from existing states practices. It wasn't until stamped metal plates came in throughout Aust that standardised fonts and plate sizes came into force.

You only have to look at some of the variations in Aust Jeep hood numbers to see some of the styles that flourished.

[Mike Cecil]

True, and I agree with you about State and Military District issed plates, but the UCRS was administered centrally, and plates were issued centrally by the Dept of the Interior. Army and Air Force later painted numbers onto vehicles, and discontinued plates (less steel, given the large numbers of vehs involved) but Navy (and other Govt Depts) continued to have plates issued by DofI for the entire war, and into the immediate Post war period. They were very uniform. But the plates pictured, which are very early registrations, depart from the 'norm', so I suspect were interim plates of some sort due to the heavy and unforseen demand for plates once the war started, and DofI were playing 'catch up' with the Defence plate applications.

Mike C

[Mike Cecil]

Originally Posted by Lang

Mike,

I think a lot of people get the idea the government just knocked on your door, took the keys and drove off in your impressed vehicle. Impressed vehicles were paid for at above the average market price. Some vehicles (and other impressed items and property) which were useable were offered back to the owners when the government had finished with them.

They of course had a list of owners and took vehicles in priority (devised by bureacrats) of those least able to prove their use was in the wider national interest, hence impressed vehicles were allocated to government departments, farmers and manufacturers engaged in essential services to fill gaps in supply, not just the military. It would have p...d you off to see the bloke down the road using your truck because he had a contract with the government.

Yes, that's essentially correct as I understand it.The Dept appointed Purchasing Officers with wide-ranging authority to purchase anything required (not just vehicles) at 'fair market value', and there was no right of refusal, but there was an appeals process regarding the value. The purchase price had to take into account the average fair market value, tempered by the vehicle condition and location. Better-kept vehicles attracted above, poorer but still deemed serviceable vehicles received less that the average.

The 'hit list' of vehicles to be acquired took no account of the current use, but Purchasing Officers were able to deem a vehicle as 'R' (rejected as unsuitable) or 'E': Exempt due to special circumstances (such as doctors, etc). Such vehicles received a yellow label with 'R' (for reject) or a green label with 'E' (for exempt)on it, to show they had been examined.

The process for general impressment was (1) advertise in the local papers to notify that impressment was to occur in that area (2) issue the Purchasing Officers with a list of vehicles in their geographic area, along with the names and addresses of owners, and a pad of impressment forms (3) visit the owner, and impress the vehicle. This last step could be accomplished in several ways, either visiting the garage address, or notify the owner to present the vehicle at a predetermined time and place for inspection. The former was the more usual. It was pretty much always the owners responsibility to deliver the vehicle to the address of the Receiving Depot (just to rub salt in the wound!). It was an offence for an owner to falsify information, prevent entry to premises, not deliver the vehicle when instructed, and so on.

Conversely, the Purchasing Officer did not have to actually discuss the impressment with the owner, and had power of entry to premises for the purposes of impressment: he could just leave the completed paperwork and move on to the next address! Fancy arriving home from work and finding a set of impressment instructions under the wiper blade of your car, telling you when and where to deliver it, and how much you were going to be paid. Not quite taking the keys and driving off in your car, but not far from it.

In 1939,The Dept of the Army considered that the majority of vehicles required at initial national mobilisation would be acquired by impressment from private owners.

Mike C

[Mike Kelly]

There was an attempt to nationalize number plate size and layout in the early 1950's. Each state was issued a range of letters . NSW: AAA to FZZ VIC: GAA to LZZ etc. Little Tassie only got a single prefix letter ... I think it was WAA . QLD was N to P or similar . Interesting is, Tassie was the first to 'go it alone' with a two letter - 4 numeral plate, I think it was in the late 1960's, . During the 1950's , I believe Tassie also had a clip on tag on the number plate for annual reg. payment rather than a windscreen decal , the tag displayed the year.

Thanks for all the info on the impressed vehicle methods ... I had a look at a 1941 Willys sedan years ago ( with GMH body I think ) up at Bendigo. The car was registered new to a Doctor in 1943 - the owners papers in the glovebox still. Quite a rare car . I wonder what beacme of it ..probably hot rodded .

[Lang]

Mike C,

Thanks for detailed info.

At least we live in a country that has in its constitution stating specifically that the government may not take personal property without FAIR compensation.

You may remember the humourous movie "The Castle" a few years ago which addressed this very subject re the resumption of someone's home for development. This clause is very often used in property resumptions for new freeways etc when landowners reject the government's first payment amount as being "UNFAIR" and nearly always win bigger amounts after assessment by the court. I suppose a $500 offer for a Chevrolet would not have been worth taking to the High Court on constitutional grounds for an extra $50!

[Bill Kreiner]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I had a look at a 1941 Willys sedan years ago ( with GMH body I think ) up at Bendigo. The car was registered new to a Doctor in 1943 - the owners papers in the glovebox still. Quite a rare car . I wonder what beacme of it ..probably hot rodded .

Hi, Mike:

According to the Woodville Body Deliveries document, there were 6 Willys cars assembled in 1943; presumably the one you saw was one of them!

As for hot-rodding, that happens to way too many Willys cars here in the States as well.

Bill