New to the Shilo Museum:WW1 Cadillac Ambulance

[derk derin]

It's amazing what a new set of tires does to improve the look of a vehicle!
The paint on the side stowage lockers looks yellow? Is that the color they are?
Great looking project but dissapointed it's not an ambulance!!!
Regards,Derk

[rob love]

I am attaching some photos of the MT section in Camp Hughes, and their conversions. It would appear they liked to use model T cab and chassis. There are some vehicles in the background, including one ambulance that seems to have the hood of a Cadillac.

These photos came from Grant Tyler, who has been part of the Camp Hughes Conservation group for as long as I can remember.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by derk derin

It's amazing what a new set of tires does to improve the look of a vehicle!
The paint on the side stowage lockers looks yellow? Is that the color they are?
Great looking project but dissapointed it's not an ambulance!!!
Regards,Derk

The truck was painted yellow overtop of the Khaki. The Khaki was overtop of the original Cadillac Black on those portions which were factory. On the woodwork it would appear to have been primed in grey, so it ended up being khaki over grey on the wood. The wheels and hubs were painted red overtop of the Khaki overtop of the Cadillac black.

My thoughts are to gorilla glue the wood back together, reinforce and repair any gouges with expoxy, sand it all smooth, paint the wood with POR-15 grey, then paint the wood outside surfaces with semigloss olive while the POR-15 is still tacky. Of course, my plans will depend on what the conservators say. I could be out to lunch...I am but a lowly mechanic so I'll see what the experts say.

Front fenders will be removed if I can and lightly blasted, painted with POR-15 black, then overpainted with the semigloss OD. The hood will be chemically stripped (it is aluminum), then possibly zinc chromate (substitute) followed by the khaki.

I have ordered all the "common sense " fasteners for the tarp from the DOT manufacturer. All those fittings were ordered in government black as per the originals. Only problem with the new stuff is they put the word "DOT" on top of the little turnbuttons. The oval head slot drive screws to hold the fasteners were ordered through Blacksmith supply.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Rob

I have had hit and miss success with overpainting POR while it is still tacky....... I know they say you can do it and it may depend on how tacky is tacky...... in a few instances it resulted in the top coat of OD to have a crackle finish........ and only a sand blast will get you back to the original surface.

I would suggest you do a test scrap piece first and take notice of the temperature and humidity during your test......

It may also depends of the actual chemical composition of your top coat versus the content of the POR...... would just hate to see you mess up a fantastic vehicle.

Cheers

[rob love]

I know the crackle of which you speak. I have had it on areas where the POR-15 was a little thicker, and had not set far enough yet. As a result I often will wait almost too long on the setting of the POR-15.

I find, in general, 6 hours from application of the POR-15 until I spray the top coat on. I use Xylene as the thinner on my top coat when spraying, and I have successfully used it to thin the POR-15 as well the odd time when I spray it. So I suspect the xylene may be the binder when the top coat is applied over the POR-15.

I did the wood spokes with brushed on POR-15 and sprayed on the Gillespie top coat 6 hours later. Worked perfectly.

Again, I'll wait for the specialist's recommendation prior to going any further on the wood. More to follow in that regard. Tomorrow I'll take the left sideboards off, and I have to level off one of the support brackets. I'll add some more shots at that stage.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by rob love

I am attaching some photos of the MT section in Camp Hughes, and their conversions. It would appear they liked to use model T cab and chassis. There are some vehicles in the background, including one ambulance that seems to have the hood of a Cadillac.

These photos came from Grant Tyler, who has been part of the Camp Hughes Conservation group for as long as I can remember.

Hi Rob, not a Model 'T' to be seen in any of the 3 photos. I am not sure what the chassis are, but hazarding a guess, I would say that they are the Hudson 1/2 ton chassis based on the Hudson Super Six. That chassis was used for passenger cars, ambulances and as troop carriers carrying up to 8 troops.

Regards Rick.

[rob love]

Thanks for the information Rick. These older vehicles are way outside of my normal scope of interest, so I have a lot to learn.

[rob love]

As promised, here are some photos of the progress dis-assembling the box. I had to chisel two 1/4 square nuts to open them up a bit as the flat head bolts (I think they are called step bolts?) were turning in the wood, but in the end the step bolts themselves are fine.

Shrinkage on each side was about 1/2"so none of the holes are going to line up with the metal.

Now working on removing the backs. Some success but the nuts on the carriage botls underneath are a little snug. I have wire brushed them and oiled the threads....they will come.

Measuring the rear door and it is nowhere near square...considerably wider at the top. There is a shim on one side and not the other which may have contributed to that state. I also note they installed a wedge shaped spacer on the door jamb to make up for the extra width. So the question comes: do you rebuild with the flaw, or correct it. I think I know the answer....it doesn't sit well with me but it's not my job to change their 100 year old build.

Wood screws are generally a problem on this one. They were unplated, so some will turn, most won't, and some are the thickness of a finishing nail now. Photo below shows two that are in different states yet only 5" apart.

It is a tough call on whether to replace the wood or not. For instance the floor boards are simple 3/4" x 5" wide tongue and groove flooring pieces which I could buy off the shelf at the local home depot store. The ones in the truck now will likely not support the weight of a person on them, and some are missing. But to replace them will destroy the patina and the heritage. And if I replace the floor boards (I could distress them a bit I suppose) then what about the other boards? None of them will really support a screw as they stand.

I wish the whole truck could be as easy as the wheels were.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by lynx42

Hi Rob, not a Model 'T' to be seen in any of the 3 photos. I am not sure what the chassis are, but hazarding a guess, I would say that they are the Hudson 1/2 ton chassis based on the Hudson Super Six. That chassis was used for passenger cars, ambulances and as troop carriers carrying up to 8 troops.

Regards Rick.

Was just looking at 1916 Hudsons on google and the radiator does not seem the same. In the one photo you can see a partially assembled truck where it looks like the military is actually building the cowl. It will make it much harder to identify the vehicle if that's the case.

If there is an old car guy who wants to take a stab at IDing the vehicles, I can email a higher resolution photo that can be increased in size to help identify.

IDing those trucks is a bit of a red-herring in all this, but since camp Hughes is only a half hour from here it will still be good to know.

[rob love]

Just a short update: the truck has been stripped as far as it is going to be this time around. Niel Yeo has been popping in this week to help out......nice to have a young back around.

Some of the sheet metal has been painted already, same goes for the front axle assembly. The front half of the frame is being hand stripped of paint and grease, and will be given a coat of POR-15, then olive semi gloss applied to those areas that had the olive in the first place.

There is quite a frame patch on the right frame rail, and signs of previous cracking. Not the neatest of jobs, but it is part of the car's history so I will leave it as is.

Jack was telling me there is nothing for a rear main seal on these motors, and there should have been some shielding to direct the oil to the roadway. This car does not have it, and the wood shows it. Some of it is rotten from the oil soaking.

Wood is on order for the rear cargo box and it will be the original tongue and groove format. I am only replacing the outsides, and two planks over the wheels which support the outsides. The present wood will no longer support a screw with any amount of strength. I have ordered in all slot drive non-plated wood screws...there wasn't and won't be any Phillips or Robertson on this vehicle. However, for the actual Cadillac portion, I am going to cheat and install some furniture grade oak plywood for things like the firewall and the running boards. They get painted over or covered over with linoleum for the most part, and boards the original size (up to 18" width) just aren't available. I tried to buy some beautiful rosewood plywood, but when the guy heard I was going to paint 80% of it (under the hood would have remained stained) he refused to sell it to me.

All the original woods will be crated in prep for proper preservation and conservation measures to be taken over the next period. That is a little out of my field, so it will be a learning curve.

Some photos to see it as far as it is going this time around:

[maple_leaf_eh]

Why does the last photo make me hum the theme music from, "The Beverly Hillbillies"?

[rob love]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Why does the last photo make me hum the theme music from, "The Beverly Hillbillies"?

Blasphemy!!!

Actually, I have hear that a lot. Once the wood is back on it, and the tarpaulin manufactured and in place, it is going to really look like something. The tarpaulin and canopy over the driver give the WW1 trucks a real personality.

[rob love]

So have made some progress thanks to 12+ hour days. Just about to wrap up a 14 hour day now. Still have two days to go before I have to drag it over to the main museum for a display on the Somme. Just about all the woodwork is done, I still have to assemble the bows for the cab along with the header bow. Also still have to make a tie rod between the two headlamps so I can hang the 1912 license plate (which of course would never have made it to the Somme, mind you neither did this truck).

That should leave me a whopping full 24 hour period (who needs sleep after all) to manufacture a tarpaulin. I have a brand new Juki waiting in the textile room, along with a great selection of "common sense" turnbutton fasteners. But I have to admit time is getting tight. Of course, the bosses want to see the upholstery done too, but unless they invent a day between Wednesday and Thursday it isn't likely going to happen.

Anyhoo, here are some shots. It will get a final paint to even up all the touch ups in the morning, so hopefully the smell of fresh paint will be gone by the Friday opening, although it may well be masked by the excellent smell of new canvas.

By the way, I did take a shortcut by making the back door out of oak plywood, as is the firewall. The sides are all tongue and groove, as are the front doors, but the rear door was made up of about 8 pieces, and I am just too exhausted.

[cliff]

fantastic work.

[rob love]

Thanks Cliff.

I have to admit to lowering my standards near the end. When I was redoing the running boards, I ran out of 5/16 square nuts. I have used no hex nuts or hex head bolts during the entire project, unless they were original Cadillac. However, I ended up using 5 hex head underneath the left running board. Is it any wonder I can't sleep nights now.

I have since found 5 square 5/16 nuts that I could use, but have not found the 20 minutes required to rethread them and install them.

[Wayne Hingley]

Looks very nice Rob. Great work. Im sure it will be a real attention grabber with the crowds, once on display. I look forward to seeing it in person one of these days.

[Paul Dutton]

WOW, what a fantastic find and preservation. It looks stunning. A credit to you and your team.

[Ed Storey]

Great job Rob!

[rob love]

The colour looks off with the flash. In person it is a very good match to some of the protected areas of the original paint.

The curator also didn't want the dents takenout of the fenders, nor the wing edges re-built. I have to say that suited me fine.

We also did not touch any of the paint below the box. That area will be preserved as is was found.

Here I was worried about trying to find some extra hours to complete it on time. I forgot all about the 2 hours in the morning from when you get up until you actually start work. Eating my pancakes now and then off to work.

[Allan L]

Well done. Great work. Hours in the day? That's what they're there for, aren't they?

PS. Although I'm not a restorer, I work on the basis that the best work is done tomorrow - I'm in awe of you guys who do it, and more, today.

[rob love]

Neil Yeo was in to help me last night until almost midnight when the little tyke had to head home for sleep. I remained until 3 AM so I could finish up the canvas work. It was required to be at the museum this morning at 0700, (I was on time...Neil slept in), and in it went. So I said goodbye to her for now, but here are some shots of it as it left the shop. I intentionally make the canvas loose because there will be up to 10% shrinkage. It doesn't look great at first, but the alternative is a tarp that you can never get off again or even worse, take off and never get it back on.

All told, I had around 160 hours of overtime on this project in the past 6 weeks.

[Wayne Hingley]

WOW, it looks awesome Rob. Even better out in the daylight than it appeared in the shop. Great work! Im sure the crowds will love it this weekend.

[Jordan Baker]

Fantastic job.

[David Dunlop]

Well done, Rob!

David

[Ed Storey]

This was published in the April edition of The Maple Leaf. Good to see some national coverage of your work Rob.

[Wayne Hingley]

Thanks for sharing this Ed. Great recognition for the efforts of both the RCA Museum and Rob!

[Bob Carriere]

....... Rob Love making the headlines.

Cheers

[rob love]

Trust me, rob love doesn't like headlines.

One of the editors from Ottawa caught the story in the base newspaper or some other museum journal. I didn't write the article, but did provide a lot of the information for the curator who did write it.

The Ottawa Army news lady wanted the curator to give her my information, but the curator knows I am not keen on facebook or other social media, so forwarded her to me. I made it clear I did not want the article to be about me, but rather the vehicle. She asked me to answer 7 questions about the project and my involvement with the hobby which I did. She came back indicating she liked my writing style and wanted more. She also wanted to do a page on me. I replied that I was torn between the publicity that the museum could use when dealing with other areas of the military, and my own personal preference to privacy. I explained that I lived just outside the base on an acreage, and while most people did not know who I was, they know where I live. The problem with anything too revealing in any article, is that strangers then feel they somehow know you, and take libertys when visiting the yard. I already get many people dropping in....some are confused as to the location of the Shilo museum, some want to do me a favour and purchase one of the half dozen cannons around the yard for the price of scrap, and others have actually gone through my sheds and buildings when I am not there. I have had people pull up while I am sandblasting on the company clock, so luckily the dog lets me know. They want me to tour them around, which I will sometimes do, but not in the middle of sandblasting. So to that end I asked that maybe my inclusion to the article be kept to a minimum.

I saw the article online....I did not realize it was in the Maple leaf newspaper.

Looking at the article now, maybe there is a little more there than I would have liked, but it is a reasonable balance.

I have planted several rows of fir trees along the highway which are starting to take, so at some point I'll have a little privacy again, but not soon enough. It's a tough life for a tree in Shilo.

[Bob Carriere]

Hey it hard for anything to live/grow in Shilo ..... not just the trees.

I know the feeling....... the Hammond barn trucks are parked along a bike path and people have referred to me "as the guy with all the trucks near the skiddoo trail............ during the Summer, trees, that grows easily around here, do hide a multitude of sins....... however, the red cross from the Dodge ambulance is quite visible during the Winter months.

Popularity is really a two edged swords........ you can attract the wrong kind of people........ However, while watching some reruns of Jay Leno's million dollars garage / collection the interviewer was asking Jay "where in the heck did he find all these weird vehicles.....referring particularly to a steam powered side car motorcycle...." His answer was that ... "a lot of people actually come to him with items/vehicles asking him if he is interested......."

Mind you he is in a different $$$$$$$ league than all of us combined.....

Nonetheless, the credit given to your attention on the press is well deserved.

Cheers

[rob love]

Bob: now imagine if you were next to the 400 highway.

As it is, my wife, who works with the MFRC,will be driving with a spouse or group in to Brandon, and on the way by the yard will mention that she lives there. The echo is almost guaranteed: You live there? Of course, their husbands are enamoured with the possibility of what is in the quonset hut.

I suppose I should rush down to the Canex tomorrow and pick up all remaining copies of the ML paper for possible signing and future speculation/trading material.