Unusual desert (Indian?) Chevrolet

[Mike Kelly]

Can anyone ID this Chev , it is a 1940 model , but where was it made ? The cab looks Indian pattern , the wheels are a strange stud pattern 16 " ? . It has been built for sand conditions by the look of the sand channel .

Mike

[Tony Smith]

It looks to be very similar to the first trucks used by the Long Range Desert Group, which are described as 1939 Chev WB30 4x2 30cwt trucks.



And another with the roof on.



One more angle.

[Tony Smith]

According to Brendan O'Carrol's book "The Kiwi Scorpions", when the Long Range Patrol (Forerunner to LRDG) was formed, 14 of these trucks were obtained from the Egyptian Army and 19 "From a branch of General Motors in Alexandria". Perhaps these were "Egyptian pattern" trucks?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

This is the second go at posting a reply..the first seems not to have gone through.

Basically, for a start see WHEELS & TRACKS # 8. Therein are some shots of the identical [more-or-less] VA 1939 Model or WA 1940 Model water carrier truck. These were assembled by General Motors Near East Limited in Rue Ptolmoees, Alexandria, Egypt and were originally in a WO census series:
L 39000 to 39515 Contract V 3352 LORRY 30 CWT. 4 X 2 GS/WATER TANKERS 266 UNITS GS AND 84 WATER 133-INCH WHEELBASE for Egypt.

GENERAL MOTORS WORLD February 1940 mentioned that the Egyptian Government had ordered 180 Chevrolets, and there is a shot of one of 50 158 1/2 inch wheelbase trucks, and 20 Station Wagons outside the Plant.

I suspect that this truck is one of those seconded to the LRDG, as suggested, and is a G/S truck...there were water tankers as well. Note shaved mudguards/wings and sand tyres. Note the removable canvas hood, and the front screen.

I would love a better version of the photos please for my collection...where did they come from? Mr Vanderveen got hold of some of the water tanker being tested.

[Mike Kelly]

I suspected it may have been assembled in Egypt with a locally built cab and bodywork .

I have seen a pic of a Ford with the same cab .

Yes , the pics Tony posted show the same stud pattern and wheels on the LRDG vehicles , so that matches up with David;s info .

Anyway , what a great looking beast it is . Pity those hubs and wheels are such a oddity , otherwise a replica would be fairly easy to make up .

Yes , I saw the tanker version in Barts book some years ago . It is a 39 I think and not a 40 as I thought , the top of the grill has the narrow section .

Those fold down aero screens on some of the LRDG chevs look very much like they were pilfered from a 15 cwt Bedford or Morris and fitted in ad hoc fashion .

Mike

[Mike Kelly]

Here's is the Ford with similar cab, note the little welbike ?

AWM pic

Mike

[Steve Guthrie]

Hi there

Here's the same cab again on a Ford

[Tony Smith]

Mike Kelly has suggested that the wheels and hubs are relatively unsual. The Australian trucks referred to as "Desert Chevs" (Sorry, I don't know the model no.) had the same front hubs and beam axle, but ran 18in rims with 10.50-18 tyres.

Below is an AWM pic showing an Aust water truck version:

[Mike Kelly]

Hey Tony ,

Well spotted , the 1939-40 LRDG chevs do have a similar stud pattern to the Aust. 18" hubs . It is difficult to say they are exactly the same pitch and diameter etc, but they are both 10 stud.

The Aust. 30cwt 18" tyres were 9.00X18 and the 3 Tonners used the 10.50X18's . In the 1939-40 GMH Nasco chev army truck parts list these 18" rims are refered to as overseas pattern. The rims do vary in style . Ford Aust. made 18" rims too for military use.

Mike

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

1939 VA Model or 1940 WA Model water carrier truck. These were assembled by General Motors Near East Limited in Rue Ptolomees, Alexandria, Egypt and were originally in a WO census series L 39000 to 39515 Contract V 3352 LORRY 30 CWT. 4 X 2 GS/WATER TANKERS 266 UNITS GS AND 84 WATER
133-INCH WHEELBASE for Egypt.

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevytalk/ump1.jpg
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevytalk/ump2.jpg

This is identical to an official GM photo of a water truck in their 1944 book and also the WHEELS & TRACKS issue's. I believe that these are '40 WAs now from studying the front radiator grille. The 158 1/2" w.b. Egyptian trucks referred to were of course WBs

[nuyt]

Gentlemen,
Don Bunn's Chevrolet book, page 35, has the answer: in 1939 the Greek Purchasing Commission ordered 150 of these trucks from GM Alexandria, but British Export Guarantee Dept could not agree, possibly just the pictured trucks were built (or the others for the Egyptians?)
Enjoy, Nuyt

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The peculiar needs of Near East's territory were met by mounting " sand tires" on special wheels developed for Chevrolet commercial and truck chassis and by widening front-axle treads so that rear wheels would track, permitting efficient steering despite the low pressures stipulated for the new-type tires. Satisfactory engine cooling was attained through heavy-duty raditators wityh condensing tanks and six-balde fans, and the canvas-covered bodies provided were simple adaptations of the prairie-schooner design. The three-man cabs were buiot high enough to accommodate military drivers in pith or steel helmets and designed to permit firing from apertures in gthe roofs or over lowered windshields.

By the end of 1940 the plant was leased to the British Army and trained workmen carried on work for the Army under a GM executive.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Julis, Palestine. c. 1941. Two members of 6th Division Supply Column, Australian Army Service Corps (AASC), work on a Chevrolet truck (AIF no. 17454, 72) in the car park of the base.

This could be either a GM Near East-assembled Chev, a Holden-assembled or a Canadian-sourced...note rhd and what appears to me to be Canadian wheels. I am conjected initially that this is a 'Lorry 3-ton 4 x 2 GS' to S/M 2005, one of 3150 sent to Egypt and then issued to the AIF. The British numbers were L 449XXX so far as I can see. So that would make this a 1543X2 , or CC60L/X2! However the argument against my suggestion is that there should in theory be a British Census Number instead of/as well as the AIF number. Was this therefore a Holden-assembled truck shipped to the Mid-East? Perhaps the number can help?

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevytalk/ump5.jpg

[cliff]

Was this therefore a Holden-assembled truck shipped to the Mid-East? Perhaps the number can help?

David note the Quarter light vent window in the door. This was indicative of a Holden body Chevrolet. It is just a pity we cannot see if the side vents in front of the doors are there.

However to my knowledge some units were shipped to the Middle East along with all there transport so it could in fact be a GMHolden assembled model with Holden cab.

Cheers
Cliff

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Julis, Palestine. c. 1941. Two members of 6th Division Supply Column, Australian Army Service Corps (AASC), work on a Chevrolet truck (AIF no. 17454, 72) in the car park of the base.

Perhaps the number can help?

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevytalk/ump5.jpg

The vague, or even inaccurate, caption writer of the AWM strikes again! The number plate on this vehicle is actually AIF L-17454. The L is in red and is hard to spot on a b+w pic. This is quite different to Aust Reg No 17454.

72 was the unit serial for 1 Aust Corps Troops Supply Company from Jan 42.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Tony, I think the evidence suggests that this was indeed a Holden-assembled Canadian Chev. Here's proof that Chev and GMC trucks were sent to North Africa:

Puckapunyal, Vic. 1940-03-01. On the battalion parade ground, a row of GMC one and a half ton 4x4 cargo trucks and a Chevrolet half ton (1940 model) 2x4 utility vehicle to be sent overseas with the 2/6th Battalion. (Donor N. Templeton)

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevytalk/ump6.jpg

[Bill Murray]

Two quick questions.

The Middle East, Near East, South Asia Chevs and Fords are one of my most sought after subjects as regards photos. We seem to recycle quite a lot of the same ones on this and other sites although two were new to me on this thread. Does anyone know of an internet site or source for more such photos??

David, in your last photo, the rank of lorries in the back are described by AWM as 1 1/2 ton GMC 4X4. I know my old eyes are tired and it is getting worse, but are they not 30 CWT Chevs 4X2??

Cheers
Bill

[cliff]

Bill I too think you are right and that they are in fact Chev 30cwt 4X2's.

Cheers
Cliff

[Bill Murray]

Thanks, Cliff:

I have the utmost respect for the AWM for what they have done, and that they let us freely access the photo archives.
On the other hand, it is obvious, from time to time, that the person responsible for the captions may not necessarily be very knowledgable about their subject.

But then, that makes it just that much fun for us enthusiasts to pick apart the captions, and hopefully correct a little bit of history.

Cheers
Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Bill, I agree! It adds to the fun and wakes up the brain. No, Canadian-sourced 30-cwt Chevs. However the photo did not come up under 'Chevrolet' but 'GMC' so you have to keep looking!

[Philippe Jeanneau]

Would anyone know what type of axles was used on the desert Indian Chevrolet trucks?

[Kuno]

The "beauty" of a forum like this one, compared to Facebook", is the fact that the threads are structured and information is still available, now 19 years after the initial post was written :-)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by nuyt

Don Bunn's Chevrolet book, page 35, has the answer: in 1939 the Greek Purchasing Commission ordered 150 of these trucks from GM Alexandria, but British Export Guarantee Dept could not agree, possibly just the pictured trucks were built (or the others for the Egyptians?)

I came across a copy of this book for sale, as it happened the entry on the trucks for the Greek Purchasing Commission was included in the photos - read the text for further explanation: