Commer Q2: Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, Van

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Richard, I think you might be right....does it say "RAF" on the first line of the licence plate? I guess if it was post-war French civilian, a licence plate on the left hand of the truck would be more logical? Although I am not sure if the rules were so strict that people actually had to move the plate from right to left on trucks like these.

Hi Alex,
Well, I thought it looked like RAF on upper line, no sign of postwar rear lights. I wonder why there is no photo taken from the front?

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Alex,
Well, I thought it looked like RAF on upper line, no sign of postwar rear lights. I wonder why there is no photo taken from the front?

Same here; would love to see picture from the front of the truck. Are the front wheels original? They do seem different from the picture Hanno posted from Bart's book.

[Alan McGuinness]

The rear wheels look correct - not your normal WD pattern wheel - but a different type appear to have been fitted on the front axle.

Interesting to see a square-arched 15cwt body on a British vehicle - looks almost like a F15!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

That Q15 is back on the market:

http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_a...43.htm?ca=11_s

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another variant of the Q2, this one was used by the RAF to pre-heat aircraft engines.



Source: http://flipacars.com/cars/commer/com...otos.html#gp/1

[serge]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

That Q15 is back on the market:

http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_a...43.htm?ca=11_s

Hello

Seen in the "BON COIN" web site, this teuck was for sale for the price of 5000 euros. The truck is in BRETAGNE (FRANCE).
The cab is in a good state and the body seems to be original

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Although not a 15-cwt truck, it is a Q2 so I thought it appropriate to point out this 30-cwt Commer for sale in the UK:

1939 30cwt Commer Q2 GS

Rare British truck, I only know of this one in the UK and another in the Czech Republic which are in preservation today. It was restored several years ago. The vehicle has been stored for several years therefore the paintwork is not perfect, it has got some light surface rust in places. No rot or rust pitting, all bodywork is solid. Recently fitted new battery and plugs, engine runs very well. Vehicle is located 10 Miles South of Durham City, England. Looking for £9,000 for this great, rare British truck.
07980 346221
Dave Anderson

[Larry Hayward]

Were they used exclusively by the RAF or did the Army get any as suggested by the markings on the example for sale in the UK?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Today, 75 years ago, 322 Dutch Squadron RAF was established. One of the officers bought a parrot as their mascot. It was named Polly Grey, and colour footage published by the Netherlands Institute of Military History (NIMH) on FB shows it arriving in a Commer Q2 15-cwt Van:



Source: https://www.facebook.com/nimh.geschi...9415584322702/

[Hanno Spoelstra]

An here's another picture of one in use with the RAF:

"Winston Churchill inspects RAF personnel following a tour of a cave complex in North Africa in August 1942."



Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205196643

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Courtesy of an HMVF member, here is a scan from "the Q2 workshop manual although it quotes it as 15 cwt".

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Wheels & Tracks magazine issue no.75 featured a reprint from from the British magazine Autocar published on 13 April 1945. The article records the travelling exhibition mounted by the Rootes Group, then one of Britian's leading motor manufacturers, of a series of 1:10 scale models of the military vehicles produced by Rootes during the war. When reading the magazine, I wondered where the models would have ended up?

Now, 18 years later, looking for something else on the https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/ website, I came across three entries for Commer 1:10 scale models. Attached are pictures from W&T magazine of the Q15 and Q2 Van. They also have a model of the "Commer Q.4 GS Wagon". Maybe the other models depicting RAF vehicles were donated to the IWM as well?

Commer Q2 GS Wagon - RAF 7263
Dimensions: whole: L: 19.5in W: 8in H: 9.5in Weight: 10kg incl case Scale: 1/10



Commer Q15 GS Wagon - RAF 96261

[David Herbert]

The Rootes models were on permanent display at IWM Lambeth up to about 40 years ago. That part of the building was re-arranged at about that time and by coincidence I never visited again so I have no idea if they re- appeared. They were superb models, absolute works of art. Dunlop even made scale Trakgrip tires for them which were also offered for sale by the old British model making company Basset Lowerk (I think that is spelled correctly). I have their catalogue somewhere showing the tires.

David

[Phil Waterman]

Hi David

Couple of years ago some very similar models showed up on the PBS Antiques Road Show, they talked about them being industrial display model's from the Second World War. have some screen shots that I'll try and find and post.

Cheers Phil


Found the photos, looking back at displays we have seen in museums over the year some really interesting displays come and go. If not on display hope they find homes that appreciate them. Now as to are any of these models the subject of this thread?

[Davistine Liddle]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Besides the GS, Explosives Van and Van, the Q2 came in the guise of a Tractor as well.

I´ll make an effort to list the differences between the various Q2´s from the sources I have.

Pic source: www.ianhardy.net

I found this similar commer Q2 but its a Bus here in india (Commer Q2 1938). It belonged to Maharaja of Dhar(Princely State)......He is saying its a only survivor left hope it will help

link: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vinta...thread-60.html

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Davistine Liddle

I found this similar commer Q2 but its a Bus here in india (Commer Q2 1938). It belonged to Maharaja of Dhar(Princely State)......He is saying its a only survivor left hope it will help

Davistine,

Thanks, a nice example of the many variants Commer built. I think this bus is based on a Forward Control Q chassis.

See http://tardis.dl.ac.uk/ARCC/catalogue.html#commer for a full list of types built by Commer (part of the Rootes Archive Center).

The site lists the following wartime Superpoises:

Superpoise Q Series (1939-54, built at Luton) in 2-3 ton, 3-4 ton and 6-1/2 ton pre-war models.

Q2 2-3 ton (1939-41, 1946-48)
Q3 3-4 ton (1939-45, 1946-48)
Q4 4-5 ton (1939-45, 1946-48)
Q5 6-1/2 ton (1939-43, 1947)
Q15 15 cwt van (1939-49)
Q25 25 cwt van (1939-49)

Other than that, they have very little information on military Commers on their site, though, and only one picture captioned "Commer Q4, Ministry of Supply, Archive Centre Luton Collection."

[Hanno Spoelstra]

David, Phil,

Thanks for the background on the models!

Phil, you may want to check W&T #75 to see if these are the same models as displayed by Rootes after WW2.

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Now as to are any of these models the subject of this thread?

No, none of them are Commers.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some pics from Commer Lorries WW2:

Caption: "Commer Q15 RAF".

In reality it is a one-off prototype Commer Q2 with RAF Van type Radio Body,
the Type "E" Insulated Wireless Shell, also known as the Type "E" Signals Body.


Caption: "RASC Commer Q4 lorry middle east WW2"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Screenshots from one of the episodes of Worker and War-Front, 1942-1946.

[David Herbert]

Hi Phil,
The photos that you posted in post #44 are all models of Austin trucks of WW2. I would guess that they were made by Austin to fill the same role as the Rootes Group ones but they are nothing like the quality.

For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know, the Rootes Group was Humber, Commer, Hillman, Karrier, and Sunbeam. Post war it acquired Tilling Stevens and Vulcan but was gradually taken over by Chrysler who got full control in 1967.

David

[Davistine Liddle]

Here i found some information

Rootes Vehicle Production

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/production_rootes

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Davistine,

Thanks for that link. I’ve seen it before and I am somewhat confused about the total number of Q2 Vans built?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Les Freathy found this on the net: Commer pre heating van

[Hanno Spoelstra]

More finds from the IWM archives:

"ROYAL AIR FORCE ARMY CO-OPERATION COMMAND, 1940-1943
© IWM (CH 17402)
Object description
A North American Mustang of No. 2 Squadron RAF, takes off from Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, past a Commer Q2 mobile wireless van providing air to ground communications. To the left, a De Havilland Dragon Rapide communications aircraft is parked in on of the dispersals."

ROYAL AIR FORCE OPERATIONS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA, 1939-1943.
© IWM (CNA 3978)
Object description
Operation TORCH: a mobile Homer Station at work on the airfield at Bone, Algeria, during the arrival of Supermarine Spitfire reinforcement aircraft, ferried from Gibraltar. The vehicle is a Commer Q2, fitted with an RVT 105 Signals body, housing single-channel VHF/DF radio equipment from which homing bearings and controlled descents were transmitted to the ferry pilots. In the background, Spitfire Mark Vs can be seen, undergoing preparation for onward flights to the forward units.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Another surviving Commer. This one is the Q2´s smaller brother, the Q15. Hailing from the UK, it nowadays resides in Holland!

This Q15 has since been repainted in an attractive, but incorrect RAF blue colour:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Although not a 15-cwt truck, it is a Q2 so I thought it appropriate to point out this 30-cwt Commer for sale in the UK:

Mr. Anderson's Commer Q2 30-cwt truck was sold to a Mr. Steve Williams:



Also found a picture of this truck dating back to 1994:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some spare parts lists in the IWM cataloque of items:

15 cwt. (6 cylinder) 'Superpoise' ... : spare parts list

Object description: Includes 'list of proprietary equipment and makers' spare parts for Commer 15 cwt. (Superpoise)' 1941

Object details
Category: Books
Related period:
Second World War (content)
Creator: COMMER CARS (Author)
CHILWELL CATALOGUE NO. 4663-11-1 (Author)
Commer Cars (Publisher)
Production date: 1942
Place made: Luton
Dimensions: whole: Dimensions: 22cm., Pagination: 94p.: ill., figs.
Catalogue number: LBY 78 / 3119

Spare parts list for 15 cwt. (6 cylinder) Superpoise vehicles type Q2

Object description: Pbk.
Object description: Produced for the Air Ministry

Object details
Category: Books
Related period: Second World War (content)
Creator: AIR MINISTRY (Author)
COMMER CARS (Author)
AIR PUBLICATION 1736 (Author)
CHILWELL CATALOGUE NO. 5259-26-1 (Author)
CHILWELL PUBLICATION NO. 237E (Author)
Commer Cars (Publisher)
Production date: 1943
Place made: Luton
Dimensions: whole: Dimensions: 28cm., Pagination: 97p.: ill., figs.
Catalogue number: LBY 78 / 3255

Plus an instruction book for the Q2 Tractor with 10' WB, this is the Superpoise cabbed-one:

Instruction book for tractor 4x2 light 10.0 W.B. type 'Q2'

Object description: Pbk.
Object description: Produced for the Air Ministry
Object description: Includes folding wiring diagram in sleeve attached to rear cover

Object details
Category: Books
Related period: Second World War (content)
Creator: AIR MINISTRY (Author)
COMMER CARS (Author)
AIR PUBLICATION 1735B (Author)
Commer Cars (Publisher)
Production date: 1945
Place made: Luton
Dimensions: whole: Dimensions: 22cm., Pagination: 124p., 3 fold. leaves of plates: ill., figs.
Catalogue number: LBY 80193

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Les Freathy found this on the net: Commer pre heating van

From the IWM archives, another pre-heating van sporting a RAF roundel on the side:

ROYAL AIR FORCE: 2ND TACTICAL AIR FORCE, 1943-1945

IWM (CL 1783)

Object description
Ground crew of No. 3208 Servicing Commando, insert collapsible tubes from a pre-heating van into the air intake and radiator of a Hawker Typhoon Mark IB in the snow at B58/Melsbroek, Belgium. The tubes fed hot air into the Napier Sabre engines, which were notoriously difficult to start in wintry conditions, and required this treatment at regular intervals to maintain serviceability.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another variation of the Q2: Truck, 30-cwt, 4x2, GS (Commer Q2)

Basically a commercial type, but with military features such as towing eyes, override bumper and GS body.

The Commer Q2 15-cwt RAF van has the same 10' (120") wheelbase, so this must have been basically the same chassis.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

The webpage Rootes Wartime Vehicle Production has a complete breakdown of all vehicles built by the Rootes group reveals between the outbreak of War to the end of August 1943 6,559 Q2's were delivered. Never realised so many were produced!

With all the variations of the Q2 - Load Carrier; Utilities; 8' and 10' w.b. Tractors; Fixed side lorry, Chassis (and Cab) - I redid the calculations for the "Commer 15-cwt Load Carrier" to get a total of 1,755 delivered. But the last entry states a cumulative delivery total of 634. I checked this with Bill Kreiner, and he said:

"I know some things in that document are confusing. We (staff member at CTM and I) just copied everything verbatim from that book. The cumulative figure of 634 (which is supposed to also include the period September 1939 through November 1942 of the lost first volume) is clearly wrong. I think a number may have been left off the beginning of it, or it couldn't be read clearly when we researched it, since this was all handwritten. When working with such handwritten documents, when I can't read something, I use an asterisk and make a footnote. So either this portion was done by CTM staff or whoever compiled the original back in the 1940s made the 634 blunder. I'd go with the 1,755 total for the period December 1942 through August 1944. Unfortunately we don't know the 1939-1942 total.”