Commer Q2: Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, Van

[ted angus]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

More finds from the IWM archives:

Hi Hanno, the Sawbridgeworth photo is an Albion; The photo has been published many times with the wrong caption,
regards TED

[Hanno Spoelstra]

"ROYAL AIR FORCE ARMY CO-OPERATION COMMAND, 1940-1943
© IWM (CH 17402)
Object description
A North American Mustang of No. 2 Squadron RAF, takes off from Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, past a Commer Q2 mobile wireless van providing air to ground communications. To the left, a De Havilland Dragon Rapide communications aircraft is parked in on of the dispersals."

Originally Posted by ted angus

Hi Hanno, the Sawbridgeworth photo is an Albion; The photo has been published many times with the wrong caption

Hello Ted,

Thanks for pointing that out. I was happy I found another photo of a Commer (as per the caption), I should have checked the picture more carefully.

Can you tell us which exact model this is? I could only find this picture you posted on HMVF.

Thanks,
Hanno

[ted angus]

Its an Albion A.M.463 built for the Air Ministry from 1934 to 38. Most common versions were aircraft refueller, G.S. cargo and ambulance. Photos of the wireless body are quite rare. The pic I posted is a crop as the vehicle had a large container on top of the wireless body , possibly for carrying aerials.
regards TED

[Chaz]

Is there any known record of 40's Q chassis numbers and dates out there?
Also, what are the 15 Q3's in the Rootes wartime production list ?
I've got a Q2 and a Q3 (or the remains of) as a long term project and not quite sure yet which direction the rebuild will take.
I have done the usual Googleing and can't find much decent info on wartime Commers except this excellent thread ...

Cheers,

Charlie

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Ted, thanks for the info! Talk about a rare truck...

I will amend the caption later.

Regards, Hanno

Originally Posted by ted angus

Its an Albion A.M.463 built for the Air Ministry from 1934 to 38. Most common versions were aircraft refueller, G.S. cargo and ambulance. Photos of the wireless body are quite rare. The pic I posted is a crop as the vehicle had a large container on top of the wireless body , possibly for carrying aerials.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Chaz

Is there any known record of 40's Q chassis numbers and dates out there?
Also, what are the 15 Q3's in the Rootes wartime production list ?
I've got a Q2 and a Q3 (or the remains of) as a long term project and not quite sure yet which direction the rebuild will take.
I have done the usual Googleing and can't find much decent info on wartime Commers except this excellent thread ...

Hello Charlie,

Glad to hear you like this thread. Can’t answer your question for now, will do some more digging to see what comes up.

Meanwhile, I leave you with pictures of Mark Bannon’s Q2 8’ w.b. Tractor project - just to let you know you’re not alone working on saving these rare trucks.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

I do remember seeing a 1/76 scale modelling drawing of the truck in question.

Alex,

Could that drawing be this one?



Some more information from modelling magazines or books:

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hanno,

I think the drawing might have been the bottom left one (page 17)....from a Bellona publication(?)

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Les Freathy wrote on FB:

Another image Hanno from the RAF data listings, sorry about the line through the middle apparently when these and others were surplussed it was customery to put the line through the illustrations i cant see why that had to be done surely just a explanation written the page would have been sufficient.

[Rod Salter]

Gave it a cut and polish

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rod Salter

Gave it a cut and polish

Thanks Rod!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Found high quality versions of two known pictures of a Commer Q15 15-cwt and a Commer Q4 3-ton truck.

Make sure to check out Graham Newell's "Military Vehicle" album at https://www.flickr.com/photos/625327...7630353233450/



Source: https://flic.kr/p/WF5LMc and https://flic.kr/p/HtcpsP

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I'm trying to gather some more information on the Commer Q2 15-cwt as used by the RAF during WW2. Here's what I found in Vanderveen's books (text) and the internet (pictures):

Les Freathy found a better picture of the Q2 Van in the first post. It is in use with a Polish RAF squadron as the near side wing has the Polish Air Force checkerboard marking. The offside wing sports the RAF Type A roundel.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Speaking of RAF markings:

Ted Angus remarked that early vehicles had aluminum RAF letters screwed on the door. Once camouflage came in the RAF they were painted over, as seen on this Commer Q2 Tractor. These letters were done away with when the roundel was introduced.

[Keith Brooker]

Two photos from my collection.
Keith

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Brooker

Two photos from my collection.

Thanks Keith!

[Radek]

another picture of Commer Q4

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Thanks Radek, also for sending me this picture. Had seen it before but somehow not posted it here. This Ministry of Food variant is a rare one, it may even be a one off? The Bedford-based one is better known.



Source: https://flic.kr/p/fgLYic

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This Ministry of Food variant is a rare one, it may even be a one off?

Richard Allebone sent me a screenshot, a quick search yielded the original of another Commer Q2 flying food truck. This is another vehicle, note “Jamaica’s Women War Material and Comforts Committee” on the side. It was supplied to UNNRA so this is a postwar picture.

Read more about how Caribbean women supported Britain’s war effort in a variety of ways at http://westindiacommittee.org/caribb.../women-in-war/


Source: https://search.archives.un.org/unrra...-flying-squads

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Over on HMVF in the excellent thread Guy vix-ants - queens messengers "Runflat" posted two files identifying all the Commer chassis supplied as "Welfare Vans". A total of fifteen Commers were supplied as Welfare Van (pictured here) and Canteen.

I have attached the details of the particular example posted above, as well as the files by "Runflat". Commer Q2 "CUN 351" was transferred to UNRRA where it was registred as "UNRRA-Y9".

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Richard Allebone sent me a screenshot, a quick search yielded the original of another Commer Q2 flying food truck. This is another vehicle, note “Jamaica’s Women War Material and Comforts Committee” on the side. It was supplied to UNNRA so this is a postwar picture.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The file with the listing of Ministry of Food & Queen's Messengers vehicles lists the Commer Welfare Van donated by Jamaica Mutual Life Association Society as CUN 353:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Thanks Radek, also for sending me this picture. Had seen it before but somehow not posted it here. This Ministry of Food variant is a rare one, it may even be a one off? The Bedford based is better known.

[Alan McGuinness]

Glad you appreciate the lists.

Here are some more Commer photos from the IWM archive, though you may need to squint a bit.

A1863


CH12890


CH14815

[Alan McGuinness]

And some more:

CM2230


CM2232


CM5402


H17175


ME(RAF)5659

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alan McGuinness

Glad you appreciate the lists.

Here are some more Commer photos from the IWM archive, though you may need to squint a bit.

Alan, I cannot thank you enough for compiling the lists, it is great to add an identity to the vehicles found in the various pictures!

Of the IWM photos, I particularly like:

CH14815: A crew of No 58 Squadron in front of their Halifax Mk II Series IA at Stornoway in the Outer Hebrides, 22-26 February 1945.

Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205219002


A1863: Nissen huts at a naval base, with Supermarine Walrus amphibious aircraft off shore. 1940

Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205136207

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another pre-heating van:

“Ground staff prepare a No. 233 Squadron Hudson for flight in freezing conditions at Thorney Island, 19 January 1942. The 'hot air van' has been brought in to warm up the engines and de-ice the cockpit windscreen.”



Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205218949

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Another pre-heating van:

And one more, towing a runway control van:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

A row of RAF Crossley Q tractors, all sorts of interesting vehicles in the background like a Commer Q2 Van.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Post-war conversion on Commer Q2 chassis into a laundry van.

The Dunlop Trak Grip 10.50-16 tyres are a give-away this is a former military vehicle.

[Larry Hayward]

Ted, regarding your post 89, what distinguishing features of that Sawbridgeworth 'Commer' convince you its an Albion A.M.463?

Regards

Larry

[ted angus]

Sorry for the late reply. The vehicle in the IWM photo has a quarter light in the cab, Commers don't have quarter lights. The strip of vents in the side of the bonnet - although only partially visible is too high in it's dimension, the position of the step/running board is wrong for a Commer, the contour or the front wing is wrong So definitely not a Commer. Also the body is the pre-war pattern fitted to Albions. regards TED