Commer Q2: Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, Van

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Commer Q2 30-cwt with census number L3922025

From contract C4663 with WD No. L-3921890 - L-3922028, all for Commer Q2 30cwt 4x2 Truck GS.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Mr. Anderson's Commer Q2 30-cwt truck was sold to a Mr. Steve Williams:

The Anderson 30-cwt Q2 was recently sold on to Kevin:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Another variation of the Q2: Truck, 30-cwt, 4x2, GS (Commer Q2)

Basically a commercial type, but with military features such as towing eyes, override bumper and GS body.

The Commer Q2 15-cwt RAF van has the same 10' (120") wheelbase, so this must have been basically the same chassis.

Here's another picture of the same 30-cwt truck:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another Commer Q2 15-cwt Van, courtesy of Les Freathy:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

More pics of Commer Q2 radio vehicles, courtesy of Les Freathy.

As they seem to have post-war registrations, these were pics must have been made post-1949.



Editd to add: The second picture is captioned "Mobile D/F Station from the early early 1950s. On site in RAF Jever, Germany" at http://www.vintageradio.me.uk/military/r1132_a.htm

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The Nevington War Museum lists it as "Commer Q2 Type 105 Radio Van"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The Type 105 Radio Vehicle's purpose was a mobile VHF direction finder station:

Ref. https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/7705-light-...comment=106646

I have been lent a manual called Concise Details of Radio Vehicles, an Air Ministry publication, but dated 1950.

It covers many types of radio trucks, but there are two that are simular to my Light Warning Truck,

One refurs to a Type 105 Radio Vehicle, the other a Type 267 mk.1 although this is on a Bedford cab/chassis, the back body is very simular to mine, the body is refured to as a 'type E' stores ref 16a/1672.

The discription states:-

This is a mobile Monitoring unit used for centimetric pulsed transmissions. Three aerial systems are provided, one to cover the upper end, one set in the horizontal plane and the other in the vertical plane.

the equipment consists of a pair of waveguid aerials mounted on a suitable turning gear...............it goes on for pages!

The Equipment listed is :-

• Two recievers Type R.1392D
• Two power units Type 234A
• Control Unit Type 7a
• Transmitter-Reciever Type TR.5043
• Power unit type 15
• Petrol Generating set, 1260w, 35V
• Control unit Type 714
• Control unit Type 715
• Indicator CRT Type4
• Power unit type 820
• Amplifying unit type A.3269
• Test set Type 219

The purpose of this installation is a mobile VHF direction finder station.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Some spare parts lists in the IWM cataloque of items:

Spare parts list for 15 cwt. (6 cylinder) Superpoise vehicles type Q2
Object description: Pbk.
Object description: Produced for the Air Ministry
Object details
Category: Books
Related period: Second World War (content)
Creator: AIR MINISTRY (Author)
COMMER CARS (Author)
AIR PUBLICATION 1736 (Author)
CHILWELL CATALOGUE NO. 5259-26-1 (Author)
CHILWELL PUBLICATION NO. 237E (Author)
Commer Cars (Publisher)
Production date: 1943
Place made: Luton
Dimensions: whole: Dimensions: 28cm., Pagination: 97p.: ill., figs.
Catalogue number: LBY 78 / 3255

Eric Delcomenne had a copy of this spare parts list, he was so kind to sell it to me. My copy is "Publication NO. 237D" dated "[5/42]"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The Commer Q2 "RVT 105" is mentioned here: http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads...r-force.23810/

There were also Light 100 units which could operate as Gee, Gee H or Oboe transmitters but used smaller vehicles and sets, were much more mobile but had shorter range. The vehicles seem to have been Commer Q2 RVT 105, a 15cwt with house type body. A permanent roof mounted aerial mast could be folded forward for stowage when travelling. When folded down it was protected by a wooden framework. When operating the aerial could be rotated for direction finding or for transmitting beams in an accurate direction. The vehicle was positioned so that it was facing True North and stakes were driven into the ground in a 100 foot radius circle to mark compass points.

The RVT 105 could also be used for BABS on airfields. These Blind Approach Beacon Systems were accurate for direction but could not give an accurate height.

So it seems 100 of these Commer Type 105 Radio Vehicles were built.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's one in RNZAF use. I'll have to find out where No. 489 Sqn operated to pinpoint a possible location.

Note the writing on the door:
"Maximum speed 35 mph
Cruising speed 30 mph"

Sadie Taylor driving a No. 489 Squadron truck. Unknown location. Copied from the No. 489 Squadron unofficial Unit History. Ca. 1945


Source: https://fotoweb.airforcemuseum.co.nz...10377.jpg.info

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here's one in RNZAF use.

Interestingly, the RNZAF had a similar pick-up/van in use in the 1950s-1960s based on a postwar Commer model.

"WRNZAF publicity. Unknown woman tightening the wheel nuts on Commer truck MT4287,
number plate 'GOVT2*405' at RNZAF Station Hobsonville. Date: 09/08/1956"

Source: https://fotoweb.airforcemuseum.co.nz...-56_1.JPG.info

"WRNZAF publicity. Unknown woman putting oil into the engine of a truck.
RNZAF Station Hobsonville. This truck is believed to be Commer truck MT4287,
number plate 'GOVT2*405'. See WhG10297-56. Date: 09/08/1956"

Source: https://fotoweb.airforcemuseum.co.nz...96-56.jpg.info

"Side view of a small covered truck. RNZAF Base Whenuapai. Date 1966."

Source: https://fotoweb.airforcemuseum.co.nz...79-66.jpg.info

[Alex van de Wetering]

Just out of curiosity.....Does anyone know more about the interchangability of 1950's Commer parts with WW2 ones?
At first sight it looks like the cab, including doors and windscreen might be the same?.....what about engine, gearbox, axles, chassis? Can a 1950's civvy Commer be used as a parts donor for a WW2 Commer Q2, Q15, Q4?

Nowadays it seems WW2 era Commers are very rare.....which seems strange if you see the rows of trucks in period pictures......so, were they that bad? or were they that good, resulting in them being worked to death in post-war civvy life?

[Chaz]

I know it's not a Q2, but it's a nice Q4 photo which may be of interest to follower of this thread ? Nicked it from FaceBook...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Chaz

I know it's not a Q2, but it's a nice Q4 photo which may be of interest to follower of this thread ? Nicked it from FaceBook...

Thanks, pictures of Commer trucks are far and few between, so bring them on.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Radek

Here is the same Commer after the renovation of the forum member Higgins

Here's a more recent picture of Tomas Higgins' Q2 30-cwt:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Commer Q2 Tractor with a Hawker Tempest on a Queen Mary trailer during the Victory parade in London, 8th june 1946.

This is a Militarised Superpoise, officially known as 'Tractor, 4x2, Light, 10'0" WB, Type Q2', also referred to (by RAF) as '4-ton tractor'. Produced in 1945, chiefly for towing 'Queen Mary' aircraft-transporter semi-trailers.




There is only one known survivor of this type of Tractor. It was last seen for sale in the Netherlands ca. 2016 and has since disappeared off the radar.

[KevinHann]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

The Anderson 30-cwt Q2 was recently sold on to Kevin:

Attachment 116348

Just a Hello from me, I have just joined the forum and this is my Commer. She is proving to be a difficult one at the moment, the restoration is well underway but getting her to start and run are troublesome.

We will keep at it though, we spent an awful lot if time finding a wartime Commer, we have other Rootes vehicles too, but our aim is to preserve rare Commers and Hillmans of this period.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by KevinHann

Just a Hello from me, I have just joined the forum and this is my Commer. She is proving to be a difficult one at the moment, the restoration is well underway but getting her to start and run are troublesome.

We will keep at it though, we spent an awful lot if time finding a wartime Commer, we have other Rootes vehicles too, but our aim is to preserve rare Commers and Hillmans of this period.

Hello Kevin, welcome on here.

Here’s another photo of your truck taken by Dave Boxall at the Southsea 50th anniversary D-Day show at the end of May 1994.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Les Clanchy wrote: “Commer Q2 15cwt warming van being used to warm up the engines and de-ice the cockpit windscreen of a Hudson belonging to 233 squadron (Coastal Command) at Thorney Island, 19th January 1942“

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

The Nevington War Museum lists it as "Commer Q2 Type 105 Radio Van"

This one was pictured in Greece in 1947, reportedly. Photo courtesy of Dimis Parousis.

[Keith Brooker]

RAF Commer and captured Commer.
Photos from my collection.

[KevinHann]

So, I have a dilema.

We have removed the body from our Q2 and we are still left wondering about what body would have been fitted.

The chassis rails are very short and have a heavy duty fitted wartime towbar arrangement. We have rubbed the chassis down and can confirm it has not been cut down or welded at any position.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ffa7de03ba.jpg

So, the options.

1. The GS truck chassis rails should extend at least 1 foot past the rear cross member, ours clearly does not do this. I notice in photos of Tomas truck his do extend much further than ours.
2. The Pre-heater truck does have the shortened chassis but this would also mean the truck has a PTO which ours definitely does not have.
3. What about an aircraft towing tug? That would require the hefty towbar and a shortened body as to not cause any obstructions? I have seen photos of both normal control Fordsons and Bedfords being used in this capacity?
4. Are there any special bodies made in much smaller or one off situations for towing? Most RAF contracts are simply supplied as 'Cab and Chassis' so other bodies could be a possibility?

Any thoughts?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Kevin!

Originally Posted by KevinHann

We have removed the body from our Q2 and we are still left wondering about what body would have been fitted. The chassis rails are very short and have a heavy duty fitted wartime towbar arrangement. We have rubbed the chassis down and can confirm it has not been cut down or welded at any position.

The towbar looks like a standard WD pintle hook as fitted to many British and Canadian W.D. trucks. The Tructor - see below - has a beefed up version compared to the one on your Commer.

So, the options.

1. The GS truck chassis rails should extend at least 1 foot past the rear cross member, ours clearly does not do this. I notice in photos of Tomas truck his do extend much further than ours.

IIRC Thomas' truck was repurposed as a fire truck after the war, it could well be its chassis was lengthened.

The 30-cwt truck side view above shows the chassis is considerably shorter than the body.

3. What about an aircraft towing tug? That would require the hefty towbar and a shortened body as to not cause any obstructions? I have seen photos of both normal control Fordsons and Bedfords being used in this capacity?

You mean like a Tructor? I don't think I have ever seen Commer trucks in that role.

4. Are there any special bodies made in much smaller or one off situations for towing? Most RAF contracts are simply supplied as 'Cab and Chassis' so other bodies could be a possibility?

I am not aware of any other body types than listed in this thread.

[KevinHann]

Hi Hanno,

Thanks for replying and giving your thoughts.

Mine definitely has the Pintle Hook and its good to see photos of the Tructor towbar that is a lot more substantial.

I have compared the photos I have for the GS bodied truck with mine and the chassis is a lot shorter. Agreed, the body has quite an overhang on the GS truck but the rails do extend quite far behind the rear wing. If you look at mine from the side the chassis stops roughly in line with the back edge of the rear wing.

It simply doesn't look right, and also the GS body made for mine is considerably shorter than the original but this was made postwar as far as I know so is not original.

Thanks, Kevin.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hi Kevin,

It could be that your chassis was a GS truck which was shortened, or a Pre-heater truck which was rebuilt for another role, including the replacement of the gearbox with PTO. I think the former is more likely than the latter.
I have seen other ex-MVs which had their chassis bobbed when they were converted to garage break down trucks, for example.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Q2 tractor photographed at Beltring, c.1995. Where is it now?

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Q2 tractor photographed at Beltring, c.1995. Where is it now?

I thought it was this beauty.....but the licence plate is different....

source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/boblov...-brUxas-jsQCh6

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Very attractive colour scheme! Although during WW2 they would be painted in the same colour scheme as army vehicles.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Another Commer Q2 15-cwt Van, courtesy of Les Freathy:

Another shot of Commer Q2 Van "RAF 8373", courtesy of Les Clancy.

Note the tilt has remains of some sort of camouflage scheme while the Van has not.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Commer Q4, pictures courtesy of Stuart Watson: