Commer Q2: Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, Van

[Hanno Spoelstra]

By Richard Payne:

Marked to 1st Armoured Division but with a Corps bar above the arm of service serial...which is odd...

One on the beach.

..and a 4th Infantry Brigade anti-tank company asset...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by KevinHann

Just a Hello from me, I have just joined the forum and this is my Commer. She is proving to be a difficult one at the moment, the restoration is well underway but getting her to start and run are troublesome.

We will keep at it though, we spent an awful lot if time finding a wartime Commer, we have other Rootes vehicles too, but our aim is to preserve rare Commers and Hillmans of this period.

Kevin's restoration is progressing nicely: https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/42848-1942-...t-restoration/

Finally some better weather, had to move our shed around so the Commer was moved out into the yard.
All the welding is now finished on the cab, plenty of rot has been cut out, fabricated and welded. Onwards with filling and rubbing down.

Photo source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/521975...h/51920228898/

[Alex van de Wetering]

This came up in a google search, when searching for something else (as usual).....I have no idea where the picture originated from and if it's period original, or if it's from a movie.....as the V2 seems a bit short and bent, and crosses on the doors seem a popular thing in movies (?)

[Lynn Eades]

Alex, the bend is to help with the curved flight path You just have to turn the base to aim it before you light the wick.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

See the album "Commer Lorries WW2" with some pictures of Commer trucks in wartime service.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/700630...57668632511339

No new Q2 Van photos though.


"WH 434755 - German army Commer Q4 lorry Eastern Front"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

And one more, towing a runway control van:

Better picture of this Commer Aircraft Pre-heater Vehicle towing a Runway Control Caravan:

Title: Halifax landing by runway caravan
Description: On the right an airborne Halifax with wheels down just above the ground while below a man watches. To the bottom centre and left a small truck towing a check pattern runway caravan with wind sock behind.
Submitted with caption LV874 EY-P Popeye's Purge on finals at RAF Breighton'.
Two versions of the same image. The second submitted with caption '78 Sqn Halifax MkIII on finals at RAF Breighton, LV794 EY-P Popeye's Purge'.

Source: https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.a...document/32795

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

No new Q2 Van photos though.

Well here's a new one!

Looks like RAF 92275 is an example of the last type with simplified rear body and no rear mud guards.

"Title: Marion Clarke
Description: Marion and a Commer Q2 15 cwt van RAF 92275."

Source: https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.a...document/34619 and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.a...document/34811

See more RAF Mechanical Transport photos at the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive - go to https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/ and search for "service vehicle"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

George Moore wrote:

“I discovered a lot of info and drawings were returned to the then Ministry of Supply when contracts ended. I personally have done a lot of research, as a model maker. Sad to relate, when researching Humber vehicles, I was told that after General Motors took over the Rootes group in the 50’s, all drawings and info was skipped and burnt.”

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

George Moore wrote:

“ Sad to relate, when researching Humber vehicles, I was told that after General Motors took over the Rootes group in the 50’s, all drawings and info was skipped and burnt.”

I do not recall General Motors taking over Rootes Group in the 50’s. Chrysler took over around the late 60’s as I recall.

[David Herbert]

Though there was a brief relationship with Ford USA which resulted in the Sunbeam Tiger (an Alpine with a Ford V8). A Ford V8 engined Humber Snipe was also prototyped but never went into production.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

You're right Richard, it was indeed Chrysler which took over Rootes between 1964-1967, and in 1978 it ended up in the hands of Peugeot - read https://www.curbsideclassic.com/auto...-rootes-group/

I quoted George Moore mainly because of the the notion that when Rootes was taken over "all drawings and info was skipped and burnt.” However, according to the Rootes Archive Centre Trust "a warehouse full of old Rootes documents and drawings" was donated by Peugeot to the ARCC.

I have been trying to find out more info about the 15-cwt RAF Van and there is very little info available. As Bob Allan wrote: "we have very little information about these vehicles and do not know where the records are now". So the search continues...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Via Steve Wright who shared photos "from the Thompson Brothers archive".

As far as I can tell this water bowser type was not taken into production.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another nice Commer Q2 photo, not a Van but a Tractor with 8'0'' wheelbase:




Plus, a photo of the manual for this Tractor:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Page from a RAF vehicle data book, courtesy of Ted Angus. He wrote the pre-heater van had a 10ft wheelbase and the heater fan was driven by 3 V-belts driven by a PTO on the nearside of the gearbox.

"Aircraft Pre-Heater Van on Commer Q.2. 4 x 2 chassis"

[Davdberg]

Does anyone know what the actual difference is between the Q15 and the Q2 GS model?

Seems Q2's have a single glass piece front window, or am I mistaken?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Davdberg

Does anyone know what the actual difference is between the Q15 and the Q2 GS model?

A Q15 had a 4 cylinder engine, and the Q2 had a 6 cylinder engine. Wheel sizes differed too.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Davdberg

Does anyone know what the actual difference is between the Q15 and the Q2 GS model?

Seems Q2's have a single glass piece front window, or am I mistaken?

Hi David,

Like Richard says the Q15 has a 4-cylinder and the Q2 a 6-cylinder engine. Single glass front window was early/mid, the two piece window was a late feature from what I can see.

I have this spare parts list: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...162#post274162, plus a postwar Q2 maintenance manual. Happy to look up info you are looking for.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Does anyone know if there were two different widths of front fenders? Sometimes it looks like the Q15 has narrower fenders when compared with the Q2 and Q4.......or is it just the beefy wheels of the latter two that make it look like the fenders are wider?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Good point Alex. Vanderveen lists a width of 78 inches for both Q15 and Q2, but I have the same feeling that the Q15 is in fact narrower.

Ref. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...121#post137121

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Does anyone know if there were two different widths of front fenders? Sometimes it looks like the Q15 has narrower fenders when compared with the Q2 and Q4.......or is it just the beefy wheels of the latter two that make it look like the fenders are wider?

Alex,
The Q15 had 7.50-20 tyres and the Q2 had 10.50-16, so front wings are likely to be different due to the tyre widths.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Alex,
The Q15 had 7.50-20 tyres and the Q2 had 10.50-16, so front wings are likely to be different due to the tyre widths.

Thanks Richard. Just out of interest...Did you see any wartime Commers some through the workshop in your REME days? Or were they allready sold as surplus in favour of Morris C8's, Bedford QL's etc.?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by serge

Seen in the "BON COIN" web site, this teuck was for sale for the price of 5000 euros. The truck is in BRETAGNE (FRANCE).
The cab is in a good state and the body seems to be original

This Q15 was bought by Ludovic Meyer who started to restore it


Source: https://nicokubel.blogspot.com/2021/...les-meyer.html

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Thanks Richard. Just out of interest...Did you see any wartime Commers some through the workshop in your REME days? Or were they allready sold as surplus in favour of Morris C8's, Bedford QL's etc.?

Sorry Alex, I must have missed your message! Only the Q4 4x4 trucks from early 1950's. I did overhaul some engines for these.

[Wolfy]

One from a previous Facebook post.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by KevinHann

Just a Hello from me, I have just joined the forum and this is my Commer. She is proving to be a difficult one at the moment, the restoration is well underway but getting her to start and run are troublesome.

We will keep at it though, we spent an awful lot if time finding a wartime Commer, we have other Rootes vehicles too, but our aim is to preserve rare Commers and Hillmans of this period.

Meanwhile, Kevin has finished the restoration of this Commer Q2 30-cwt truck - see more photos here: https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/42848-1942-...comment=499556

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Found some more pictures in this documentary: RAF Coastal Command (1944)

It shows two RAF Commer 15-cwt Vans (one with census number RAF 4722) in use at Royal Air Force Station Reykjavik, where "Coastal (Command) anti U-boat Squadrons in Iceland have two main jobs. (...) Intermittently, over various periods American squadrons both Army and Navy, have cooperated in this work", as per the voice over.

We see aircrew scrambling "off to a job", board a Commer which then drives off to the flight line:

[KevinHann]

With only a few finishing touches to carry out on our 30cwt Commer, mainly the painting of the decals and insignia which I will be undertaking myself over the next month or so we are now looking forward.

We very much enjoy the restoration side of these projects and so we have decided to go for another project, as Commers ore our thing I have started to put out feelers here and there for the next project...

Trouble is we all know that wartime Commers are very rare but we will keep looking cause you just never know what will turn up one day. Be it a 15cwt RAF van or a Q4 3 tonner we would be interested to hear and be keen to save another wonderful vehicle of this marque.

If anyone hears or knows of anything that would be up our street then please get in touch.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Kevin,

I promised on HMVF to post some pictures of your Commer in a previous life...so I have attached them here and will also upload them to HMVF later on.
The pictures were taken by my dad, in Haarlem (Netherlands) 7 May 1995.

The Commer also appears in this youtube movie (not mine)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZCoFjUP0Ao

Trouble is we all know that wartime Commers are very rare but we will keep looking cause you just never know what will turn up one day. Be it a 15cwt RAF van or a Q4 3 tonner we would be interested to hear and be keen to save another wonderful vehicle of this marque.

I think you should check the forum, as I seem to remember there has been a Commer project mentioned here on the forum before.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

I promised on HMVF to post some pictures of your Commer in a previous life...so I have attached them here and will also upload them to HMVF later on.
The pictures were taken by my dad, in Haarlem (Netherlands) 7 May 1995.

The Commer also appears in this youtube movie (not mine)

Excellent, Alex! Great to see photos and footage of this particular truck.
The first picture shows Jim Anderson behind the steering wheel. I have tried to share them with his son, but his email address is no longer valid.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some details of a rare surviving 1939 civilian Q25 Lorry. It may well have been used by the armed forces during WW2.

From the National Transport Trust, May 2021:
"This Commer was restored by Roger Turpin from Gedney in Lincs. Purchased as a dismantled chassis cab in October 2018 as the classic ""basket case"" and found to be missing many parts. Through the help of a sympathetic land owner a second very rotten Q2 was obtained and sufficient axle/brake parts were present to make the restoration a possibility to it's original form.
It is said to be the earliest Q2 in existence. It is chassis number 12A0042 which is dated June'39, the model first appearing in April'39. Many of these vehicles were impressed by HM Govt in Sept '39 and were subsequently lost in France in 1940. Traces of RAF blue were found when the cab and panels were taken back to bare metal.
Stage one is complete as the Commer has been returned to ""flat bed"" configuration, engine rebuilt along with all brake equipment. Once cab internals finished, vehicle could be driven.
Stage two, planned for this winter, is the completion of cab interior and the mounting of a 500 gallon tank to the rear bed. this would be in the style of a kerosene delivery vehicle of the period."

It has changed hands recently and is now in the care of Alexander Scott in the UK. While this had a six cylinders engine originally, it is now fitted with a more modern engine and gearbox and is driven regularly.