CMP tyre manufacturers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Over on "the other site", Mark Arnott asked me: "What was the original tyre manufacturer for CMPs?"

I know of one brand at least - see my pictures of a wartime Firestone Cross Country Ground Grip 9.25-16 tyre on a C8A HUP.

Who can add to this subject?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Back in 2002, on my web page on 9.00-16 tyres I wrote (this was originally posted on the old forum which no longer exists):

Mike Kelly made a list of 9.00-16 tyres and their markings as found on sidewalls of old tyres:

OLYMPIC ROAD GRIP 10 ply rating made in Australia
Centre Divided Rims Only
Note: Narrow directional bar V tread chevron, manufactured until early 1970's.

DUNLOP TRAK GRIP 10 ply rating Made in Australia
RAYON
To fit American Wheels
Note: Unusual curved wide bar V chevron, post WW2 manufacture.

Good Year Made in Australia
All Service Sure Grip
D /|\ D
Note: wide bar directional V chevron.

Michelin Made in England
N Type CC
W /|\ D
Note: curved directional wide V bar tread, found on a Fordson WOT2D.

INDIA SUPER TRACTION
Direction of rotation when mounted on rear wheels > (arrow pointing to closed end of chevron)
Reverse when mounted on front wheels
Note: original WW2 vintage tyres made in UK; two of them are marked RF; tread pattern is different to the T24 Dunlops.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hanno,

I think the obvious answer is that there is no such thing as "the original" tyre manufacturer for CMP's. Both Chevrolet and Ford factory pictures show a varierty of tyre threads and brands. The Good year (Chevron thread, Sure grip) and Firestone ground grip seem plentiful, but you also see the Dunlop Track grip tyres, and also road and sand tyres made by Dunlop, Firestone, Good year and India.
Even when looking at rows of finished vehicles at the Ford and Chev plant, you'll note a variety of tyres in a line of the same type of CMP.

Alex

[Grant Bowker]

I agree that there wasn't a single "original" tire manufacturer for CMPs.

In comparing actual properties (as opposed to nominal sizes) the AEDB record mentions Goodrich, Gutta Percha, Seiberling, Dominion, Dunlop, Goodyear and Firestone as manufacturers.

Runflats seem to have been mostly made by Goodyear in the common CMP sizes with a few in "odd" sizes by Firestone and Dunlop".

Most sizes of regular pneumatic tires, both cross country and highway tread patterns, had multiple manufacturers.

[David Dunlop]

As happens today, as well, there were working relationships between auto makers and tire companies.

David

[Owen Evans]

For reference, An old Dominion Royal 'Trak Master' off my C15. Not so easy to read, so here goes:

Photo 1
DOMINION ROYAL
DOMINION RUBBER COMPANY
MADE IN CANADA



Photo 2
FOR BRITISH WHEELS
9.00 - 16
10 PLY-PLUS
2 SHOCK PADS
RAYON



The third photo shows the tread pattern....**NOTE** as per the below replies, it is believed that this tyre has been retreaded. So the pattern is likely not original.

Owen.

[Grant Bowker]

I believe the Dominion tyre shown above is a retread - so the tread pattern to tyre make/model may not be original.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

I think the obvious answer is that there is no such thing as "the original" tyre manufacturer for CMP's.

Indeed, there certainly wasn't just a single one, nor was there a preference of a certain car manufacturer for a certain tyre brand.
I hope this thread will help to catalogue at least a number of them.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

I believe the Dominion tyre shown above is a retread - so the tread pattern to tyre make/model may not be original.

Yes, you can still see the deep cleats of the original pattern on the sidewall.

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

I believe the Dominion tyre shown above is a retread - so the tread pattern to tyre make/model may not be original.

Hmmm. Thanks; that would explain why I have a Dunlop Trak Grip with exactly the same tread pattern on the other side of the truck.

[Mike Cecil]

During WW2, the Australian Government purchased from several tyre manufacturers:

• Dominion Rubber Co. - 9.00-16 and 10.50-20 cross country
• Dunlop Tyre and Rubber Co: 10.50-20 cross country
• Firestone Tyre Co cross country - size not specified
• B F Goodrich Rubber Co
• Goodyear Tyre & Rubber Co, including 9.00-16 RF and 10.50-20 cross country
• Seiberling Rubber Co: 10.50-20 12 ply cross country

Most orders specified 'casings, flaps, tubes', casings being the tyre. The tyre sizes listed above are most probably not the only sizes supplied by these companies, not are they the only companies from which tyres were purchased - these are just the ones I have ordering data on.

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Thanks Mike,

Not trying to be an anorak, but I presume the tyre sizes were denominated with an "-" rather than an "x"? A tyre specialist once told me a 9.00x16 is not the same as a 9.00-16, and that is was I see printed on the sidewall of tyres.

Just trying to get it right, especially if the information comes from primary sources.

Thanks,
Hanno

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

During WW2, the Australian Government purchased from several tyre manufacturers:

Dominion Rubber Co. - 9.00x16 and 10.50x20 cross country
Dunlop Tyre and Rubber Co: 10.50x20 cross country
Firestone Tyre Co cross country - size not specified
B F Goodrich Rubber Co
Goodyear Tyre & Rubber Co, including 9.00x16 RF and 10.50x20 cross country
Seiberling Rubber Co: 10.50x20 12 ply cross country

Most orders specified 'casings, flaps, tubes', casings being the tyre. The tyre sizes listed above are most probably not the only sizes supplied by these companies, not are they the only companies from which tyres were purchased - these are just the ones I have ordering data on.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here are some pictures of a 10.50-13 tyre dated 7/1944, manufactured for the War Department by Henley's Tyre & Rubber Co Ltd. I had not seen this brand before.



PS: this tyre is for sale in Belgium, see https://www.generaaltjes.nl/Advertentie/13853/band

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Goodyear 10.50-20, dated 1/1941.

"N C /|\ D" denotes Canadian Department of National Defence, so these tyres were manufactured on a Canadian government contract.





Source: https://www.generaaltjes.nl/Adverten...el-ford-canada

[Guy Verstrepen]

Hi Hanno:

this tire I found in Brussels, he came from the airport Zaventem the farmer told me
I have other suppliers of tire brands here.
I'm going to take pictures of it and try to post here, I still have not found a solution to reduce the photos.

[Mike Cecil]

Hanno,

You are indeed correct, and as I'm a pedantic bug**r as well, I moved quickly to edit that post! My excuse is I've been writing ammunition sizes like 7.62 x 54 several times over the last few days ... OK, no excuse at all, really!!

Mike

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here are some pictures of a 10.50-13 tyre dated 7/1944, manufactured for the War Department by Henley's Tyre & Rubber Co Ltd. I had not seen this brand before.

Hanno,
Henleys were an old tyre maker going back to the solid tyre era, based in Gravesend. Around 1957 they were bought out by Avon Tyres.

regards, Richard

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Guy Verstrepen

Hi Hanno:

I'm going to take pictures of it and try to post here, I still have not found a solution to reduce the photos.

Hi Guy,

This may be of help:

If you are using a PC (Windows), and not Apple, you should already have Microsoft Paint installed. If not, you can download it for free.

All you need to do is right click the picture then select "Open with">Paint
Next click on "Resize" on top left corner. Change radio button to "Pixels".
Change "Horizontal" box to 1200 (maximum size for posting on MLU), Click OK and save. It is now all done.

There are many other ways to resize photos with various photo editors but I have found "Paint" to be simple and convenient and as it came with Windows on my PC there was no extra effort to use it.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers,

[Mike Cecil]

As Jacques said, many ways to reduce the size.

If your computer has MS Office, then Microsoft Office Picture Manager is very simple - you can reduce the image size by nominating a percentage of the original.
Right click on the image.
Go to 'Open With', and you will find MS Picture Manager.
Once the image opens, click 'Picture' in the tool bar.
The box that opens has 'resize' toward the bottom.
Click 'resize' and a box comes open on the right of the screen.
Click 'Percentage of original width x height' and choose the % you want to end up with.
Save the image under a new/modified name, or the original will be resized.

Mike

[Guy Verstrepen]

thanks guys;
I will try that as soon as possible.


Grtj Guy.

[Guy Verstrepen]

here a few tires manufacturers who are here at home with me.

[gjamo]

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1938-GOO...53.m1438.l2649

[blitzkriegwarrior]

My Ford gun tractor still has original tyres , altough in a poor state , marked W D 10.50-20 MICHELIN , made in Great Britain

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Back in 2002, on my web page on 9.00-16 tyres I wrote (this was originally posted on the old forum which no longer exists):

Recently, the subject of Michelin 9.00-16 tyres came up again. There is this well known photo of a 4.5" Howitzer in Singapore which has the same tread pattern as those tyres found by Mike on a Fordson WOT2D in Australia:




From a short internet search I learned that the Michelin Tyre Company Limited in London was incorporated in 1905 and that they were making a contribution to the Allied war effort, as they say:

Marking Time in Wartime

When the Second World War arrived, it proved a traumatic time for Michelin. Up till now the UK company had relied on day-to-day contact with Clermont-Ferrand, on whom it depended almost totally for functions such as research, design and testing. The invasion of France put paid to that – indeed, Michelin UK was carefully watched as its French parent was under German control and it quickly had to become self-sufficient in those disciplines that had previously been handed down from Clermont-Ferrand. Just to make matters worse, when the Japanese came into the war, they invaded large parts of the Far East, including the valuable rubber plantations such as Michelin’s in Indonesia.

Despite these setbacks, Michelin performed heroically, working three shifts a day, seven days a week and made an enormous contribution to the war effort. Of course, there was little time or resources to devote to tyres, but the years of marking time came to an end when the war finished.

They continued to make tyres for military applications after WW2 with the same type of tread, e.g. for motorcycles: https://www.wdnorton.nl/Tyres.htm




Interestingly, the same tyre pattern was used for post-war production of 9.00-16 tyres, some of which were recently spotted on Dodge D15 trucks. If I recall correctly, they are 1970s dated and manufactured by Michelin in France:

[m606paz]

Dunlop Track Grip 1050x20 12 Ply dated 1945 Made in Canada

[m606paz]

More pics and inscriptions details

[m606paz]

AEDB Volume 4

[m606paz]

More AEDB pages

[David Herbert]

Thanks for posting that Mariano.
It is interesting the amount that the different makes have different dimensions for the same size tyre.

David

[m606paz]

More pages