1936 WD Trials cars mystery

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The Riley on the left appears to be the 12/4 Army Tourer prototype, and has a Coventry early summer '36 registration. The other is allegedly a Humber, but could be a Hillman. I suspected that it's a '36 Humber 6-seater Tourer with Hillman radiator, but now wonder if it was a Hillman Hawk. Two Hawks were trialled, one with 9.00 x 13 tyres, the other 6.00 x 16 tyres. Any ideas please? The photo is at Alt-y-Bady I think in Snowdonia, Wales, autumn 1936 and blinking chilly! Oh! The 1936 War Department Trials.

http://www.chrishodgephotos.co.uk/pixcma2/04183.jpg

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

It might be a 1936 Hillman (WD say "Humber) Hawk, though it could be a 16 hp.

[Bill Murray]

Hi David:
According to Vanderveen's book "British cars of the late thirties" it should be a Hillman Hawk. He says a "batch" were supplied to the WD and shows a photo of the one with the 16" tyres and no side mounted spare.
Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

1936 Touring Car De Luxe. There were three Hawks acquired under V.3102. However it is possible that Rootes had Humber build them. they certainly mixed Commer and Hillman/Humber parts as we know for the WD.


http://www.sa.hillman.org.au/DW36Minx14.jpg

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Forgot I had this...note the Hawk is the one in front.

[Bill Murray]

Hi David:
Your last photo parallels that in Bart's book, without side mounts and with 16"wheels.


Without getting dramatic, I am now into my third week of 7 day weeks due to the Christmas selling season at HobbyTown USA and have about three more such weeks to go. As such, I am hopping about trying to make a post here and there.

For sure, nothing too coherent from my side for the next weeks but I will try to keep up.
Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

...a Hillman Hawk, with a 1/4 Riley 12/4 prototype. Are those 16" wheels or 13"?

Thanks!

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
...a Hillman Hawk, with a 1/4 Riley 12/4 prototype. Are those 16" wheels or 13"?

Thanks!

David,

Would say 16".
I have a Humber on 13" here and there is a noticable difference.

Richard

[Les Freathy]

Hi David

A couple of Hillman Hawk photos, a version of this car was so it is reported went to the Transjordon frontier force. I have a number of photos of this force but have not seen any of the hawk, did they ever get there
cheers
Les



2nd



should have been this one

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Note that it's the 13" wheeled version [judging by the wheels] M 371610, from the batch 371604 - 371613, V.3032, Chassis # 20/16788. It's been allocated to the Mechanical Engineering Establisment, Farnborough, Hampshire and was trialled in February 1936, along with the 16"-wheeled version as per photo. However it could be that the third photo is in fact when new [say February], and the first/second was taken in December 1936 at the Farnborough Trials that investigated the superior performance that the 13" wheels & tyres provided over the 16" tyre equipment. By then Rootes had found that that they had to improve the cooling, and the 1937 WD Report states that the tested Hawk proved acceptable after many more miles of off- and on-road trials. More on this in VINTAGE ROADSCENE issue 94 out next year.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Les, have you a hi-res copy of M 371610 that I could use please if required in VINTAGE ROADSCENE?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP)

Note that it's the 13" wheeled version [judging by the wheels] M 371610, from the batch 371604 - 371613, V.3032, Chassis # 20/16788. It's been allocated to the Mechanical Engineering Establisment, Farnborough, Hampshire and was trialled in February 1936, along with the 16"-wheeled version as per photo. However it could be that the third photo is in fact when new [say February], and the first/second was taken in December 1936 at the Farnborough Trials that investigated the superior performance that the 13" wheels & tyres provided over the 16" tyre equipment. By then Rootes had found that that they had to improve the cooling, and the 1937 WD Report states that the tested Hawk proved acceptable after many more miles of off- and on-road trials. More on this in VINTAGE ROADSCENE issue 94 out next year.

A somewhat better photo of Hillman Hawk M 371610:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

David would have loved to see this version of the Hillman Hawk. It is a bit of a mystery!


I found this photo and posted it in a facebook group: Hillman Hawk PU left behind in Dunkirk, June 1940.

Source: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/galler...ars-tanks.html


Richard Payne added this photo from the French Ecpad archives.
It is a burnt out Hillman Hawk in the streets of Malo-les-Bains, France, after a German bombardment.

Source: https://imagesdefense.gouv.fr/fr/veh...les-bains.html


Hillman Hawk PU captured in Northern France, and put back into service by the German Army.

Caption: “There are utility versions of the car. Very much the same as Humber produced Utilities based upon their larger models.
I have seen a few variations of the styling of this heavier utility and I have noted that some do badge it as a Commer.”
Source: Kevin on https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/43071-military-hillmans/