Armed Icebreakers for the Arctic ??

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #1 02-02-06, 07:09

Let's get real here people!!How much will it cost for one Class 1 icebreaker,never mind two.How long will it take to build even one.I dare guess not in the madate of this new landlord.Next,what will they shoot at??Kayaks??Igloos??Anything that moves? The only thing that'll give away the US Navy subs under the Polar ice cap is their laughter watching our icebreakers shooting up the arctic.Thank god the new government are a minority for a couple of years before we toss them out.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #2 02-02-06, 10:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
Let's get real here people!!How much will it cost for one Class 1 icebreaker,never mind two.How long will it take to build even one.I dare guess not in the madate of this new landlord.Next,what will they shoot at??Kayaks??Igloos??Anything that moves? The only thing that'll give away the US Navy subs under the Polar ice cap is their laughter watching our icebreakers shooting up the arctic.Thank god the new government are a minority for a couple of years before we toss them out.

WHOA, HOSS! We just busted our asses to get them in! Like John Lennon says, 'give peace a chance'!

Besides, an icebreaker or two will cost less than refurbishing our 'fleet' of CF-18s; y'see, what they do is double-hull HMCS HAIDA and HMCS SACKVILLE, and send THEM...

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #3 02-02-06, 16:18

The problem is we'll have to sneak Haida out of Hamilton harbour especially after what these people went to in order to get her there

sapper740 · #4 02-02-06, 16:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
Thank god the new government are a minority for a couple of years before we toss them out.

Jeez Garry, at least give the Conservatives a chance. After the era of Lyin' Bryan I swore I'd never vote Conservative again...but I sure as heck didn't swing over to the Liberals. I voted for the Reform Party. The only thing I hate more than a Conservative is a Liberal! Anything bad you can say about the Conservatives can be multiplied 10 times for the Libs!
To paraphrase Winston Churchill:

"The Conservatives may not be the best political party...but they're better than all the rest!"

As for the ice breaker, we need not get our knickers in a knot. Any Western Canadian who was around for the Polar 8 fiasco back in the '80's will tell you, "I'm from Missouri!"

Comments submitted respectfully,

Derek Heuring

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #5 02-02-06, 20:27

Cancelling the Avro Arrow project putting thousands out of work.(actually,this is when they lost my support forever and I wasn't even voting age)
Bringing unification to the forces.
Bringing in Free Trade wiping out thousands of jobs in the textile trade which closed mills in small towns all over the country affecting my family bigtime.This also affected thousands of companies,sending business south of the border.The GST !!
I can't go on,it's making me depressed,but you're right Sapper,they are good at some things
By the way,you point out on another thread,I think the Softskins,that you're up around Great Slave Lake.Do you know of a company in that area called Northern Transportation??

See ya buddy

Alex Blair (RIP) · #6 02-02-06, 21:14

Hi Garry...

By the way,you point out on another thread,I think the Softskins,that you're up around Great Slave Lake.Do you know of a company in that area called Northern Transportation??

If my memory servers me correctly that transportation company runs barge freight on Great Slave Lake out of Fort Macmurry...
I sent a store full of refrigeration self contained freezer and cooler cases to one of the Indian band stores in northern Sask. and the barge went down in a storm...I didn't loose anything ..as a matter of fact I doubled my money...I sent them the second load a couple of weeks later..All paid in advance of course..
When the barge went down ,'84...July....the PAMPERS IN THE CARGO COVERED THE SHORELINE OF GREAT SLAVE LIKE SNOW!!!

Thats my war story for today.

RHClarke · #7 02-02-06, 22:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
Cancelling the Avro Arrow project putting thousands out of work.(actually,this is when they lost my support forever and I wasn't even voting age)
Bringing unification to the forces.
Bringing in Free Trade wiping out thousands of jobs in the textile trade which closed mills in small towns all over the country affecting my family bigtime.This also affected thousands of companies,sending business south of the border.The GST !!
I can't go on,it's making me depressed,but you're right

See ya buddy

Garry, I just couldn't let that go by without some goodhearted challenges.

When was the last time the Conservatives were in power? Your Liberals have been at the helm for the past 13 years. Please tell me what good they have done outside of Quebec. While you are at it, fill me in on how Turdeau's wonderful vision of Canada is working out. Break out your little Red Book of Liberal promises and tell me how their repeal of the GST went.

I guess paying the same amount for half the number of (less capable) choppers Mulroney ordered is good government in some people's minds, but not to those who can do math and pay taxes. Don't get me started on Chretin's ego...

Other than providing us with lots of oxymorons (i.e. Liberal Integrity etc...), the Liberals have villified our armed forces, put relations with the US on thin ice, and have neglected the Arctic.

It amuses me to no end how liberals hold their rivals to higher standards than they do their own party. The NEW Conservatives are about to inherit the shredded dignity of Parliament from the Liberals on the 6th of February, and the howling has started already. Funny, I didn't hear too much moaning from liberals when Mr Martin wanted his total gun ban, wanted to put all power in the hands of the Supreme Court instead of elected officials, squandered billions (HRDC Fire Arms BS, ADSCAM, Canoe Museums, Armouries, shady deals, the list goes on and on and on...). Someone mentions icebreakers and the howling starts...

As was mentioned, give them a chance, and if they f**k up again, we'll turf their arses out in due course.

Come on down to Ottawa. I'll set up a few cold ones and tell you what I really think of the Liberals!

sapper740 · #8 02-02-06, 23:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
Cancelling the Avro Arrow project putting thousands out of work.(actually,this is when they lost my support forever and I wasn't even voting age)
Bringing unification to the forces.
Bringing in Free Trade wiping out thousands of jobs in the textile trade which closed mills in small towns all over the country affecting my family bigtime.This also affected thousands of companies,sending business south of the border.The GST !!
I can't go on,it's making me depressed,but you're right Sapper,they are good at some things
By the way,you point out on another thread,I think the Softskins,that you're up around Great Slave Lake.Do you know of a company in that area called Northern Transportation??

See ya buddy

Good points all Garry. No one claims the Conservatives haven't made a ton of mistakes...they just didn't seem as arrogant as the Liberals while doing it! I could give you chapter and verse about both parties, but everyone knows them already. It would just be redundant and take up a lot of Jeve's server space. You see, as a Western Canadian I know what it has been like taking it up the a## from both parties. And you wonder why there are so many Gays in Vancouver!
Reading the threads regarding the Canadian election reconfirms something I've known for a long time. Canadians outside of " La belle province" and southern Ontario are poorly served by those in Ottawa and until something is done about ensuring that the concerns of Western Canada are not only heard but addressed, Canada will remain a poor example of a democracy.

#9 03-02-06, 04:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
Cancelling the Avro Arrow project putting thousands out of work.(actually,this is when they lost my support forever and I wasn't even voting age)
Bringing unification to the forces.
Bringing in Free Trade wiping out thousands of jobs in the textile trade which closed mills in small towns all over the country affecting my family bigtime.This also affected thousands of companies,sending business south of the border.The GST !!
I can't go on,it's making me depressed,but you're right Sapper,they are good at some things
By the way,you point out on another thread,I think the Softskins,that you're up around Great Slave Lake.Do you know of a company in that area called Northern Transportation??

See ya buddy

FROM WILKEPEDIA

"On February 1, 1968, Bill C-243, The Canadian Forces Reorganization Act became law and the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN), the Canadian Army and the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) were combined into one service - the Canadian Forces. While unification was ostensibly undertaken for cost savings, it has also been suggested that Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and Defence Minister Paul Hellyer did not care for the traditions behind each service and that the new Canadian Forces (in Canada's post-war modernist fashion) was easily translated to French and eliminated inconvenient monarchist references during a contentious period in Canadian history. The reorganization has been criticized, for example by J. L. Granatstein in Who Killed the Canadian Military"

Gee Gary I didn't know that Trudeau and Hellyer were Conservatives.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #10 03-02-06, 05:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Art Johnson
Gee Gary I didn't know that Trudeau and Hellyer were Conservatives.

Dammit Art, you owe me a keyboard! I just laughed my guts out, when I most needed a laugh!

We won't even speak of Tru-red, but may Dief rot in hell for single-handedly destroying what was probably the world's most advanced aerospace business.

Now, I'm gone - HIGHLAND LADDIE is just coming on, then it's off to bed for this lad.

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #11 03-02-06, 19:41

I posted this thread after drinking a six pack in honor of Geoff's 50 something birthday.Thanks for pointing out my error.It goes to show you-They're all the same.

Long live Heeland men.

Gordon Yeo · #12 04-02-06, 02:15

If I recall correctly didn't Paul heller cross over too the Liberals from the Consevatives. Pehaps that was Garry's point about unification he just forgot Paul switched sides.

#13 04-02-06, 04:24

Garry you sure got that right they are all a bunch of bastards.

Aye Dileas

#14 04-02-06, 11:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Gordon Yeo
If I recall correctly didn't Paul heller cross over too the Liberals from the Consevatives. Pehaps that was Garry's point about unification he just forgot Paul switched sides.

Gordon you are right to a point. L/Bdr Hellyer probably crossed the floor of Parliament more than any other modern day MP. He was elected as a Liberal in 1949 then sat as an Independant after a dispute with "Give them the finger Piere". He formed his own party Action Canada then I believe he ran for leadership of the PC Party. Finally he returned to the Liberal Party. I guess you could say he was an opportunist.

John McGillivray · #15 04-02-06, 14:49

I saw this on another forum regarding Paul “ET” Hellyer original posted by Dana J. Nield.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/16923...+after+all....

By the way, Hellyer was the Defence Minister under Prime Minister Lester Pearson.

Pearson (originally from Ontario I believe) was the PM during unification. He was also the one responsible for the Maple Leaf flag and in getting the Canadian Forces bogged down in Peace Keeping, and not Trudeau. So stop blaming Quebec!!!!

It was the PC government of John D. who tried to destroy our Militia system with an Order in Council in 1959, which brought in the “Snakes and Ladders” National Survival Training programming.

Dose anyone else see the irony in the fact that conservative governments always want to spent money on Arctic Icebreakers to protect our territory from a Yankee Land grab.

Tony Smith · #16 04-02-06, 15:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Art Johnson
Gordon you are right to a point. L/Bdr Hellyer probably crossed the floor of Parliament more than any other modern day MP.

If he wanted to do so much walking, he should have been an Infanteer!

RHClarke · #17 04-02-06, 16:48

Quote:

Originally posted by John McGillivray
" So stop blaming Quebec!!!!"

John,

So who's blaming Quebec? And why are you so defensive? There are some Quebeckers (Turdeau, Mulroney, Cretin and Martin) who are ultimately responsible for the state of affairs in this country, but no one is blaming Quebec.

Reste calm, ostie!

sapper740 · #18 04-02-06, 17:08

Quote:

[i]Originally posted by John McGillivray

Dose anyone else see the irony in the fact that conservative governments always want to spent money on Arctic Icebreakers to protect our territory from a Yankee Land grab. [/B]

The following comments are aimed at all Ontarioans and Quebecers and are not to be misconstrued as a personal attack on any individual.

One small correction to your post, mon ami; The Conservatives always "PROPOSE" building new Ice Breakers. After garnering whatever political support is gained by such proposal, they then renege on the deal. Am I the only darn Canadian that remembers the Polar 8?
B.C. has one of the best shipyards in the country; Burrard Yarrows. B.C. also has the largest non-Federal government owned ferry fleet in the world. The B.C. Ferries class "C" ships are large, fast, economical ferries that have proven their worth for two decades. The FastCats were technolgical wonders, but just weren't suited for the Horseshoe Bay - Departure Bay run. Does B.C. get any Federal contracts? Non! Guess we Western Canadians aren't very good when it comes to kissing Federal ass!
You want to talk about irony?? Irony is someone from Ontario or Quebec complaining about the Federal Government! It must be tough getting your lips off the Government's teat long enough to complain!

I'll get off my Western Cedar, I.W.A. constructed soap box now.

CHIMO!

RHClarke · #19 04-02-06, 17:35

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
The following comments are aimed at all Ontarioans and Quebecers and are not to be misconstrued as a personal attack on any individual.

Pardon me while I remove the teat...there! First - I pay taxes; therfore, I bitch! Second, we whining Ontarians pay far more into the federal coffers than we receive - Don't lump us in with those who take far more than they contribute, thank you.

Now back to the teat...mmmmmmmmm good!

John McGillivray · #20 04-02-06, 19:43

Paul Martin is from Ontario. He was born in Windsor, Ontario in 1938. He grew up in Ottawa and studied philosophy and history at St. Michael’s College at the University of Toronto and is a graduate of the University of Toronto Law School. He was called to the bar in Ontario in 1966. So you can blame Ontario for the way PM turned out.

sapper740 · #21 04-02-06, 22:06

Quote:

Originally posted by RHClarke
Pardon me while I remove the teat...there! First - I pay taxes; therfore, I bitch! Second, we whining Ontarians pay far more into the federal coffers than we receive - Don't lump us in with those who take far more than they contribute, thank you.

Now back to the teat...mmmmmmmmm good!

I like a man with a sense of humour!

We from B.C. know all about paying more into the federal coffers than we get back out. Last I heard B.C., Alberta, and Ontario were paying for the rest of Canada. Here's the root of my beef with Ontario and Quebec: I can't remember a single federal election where the new government wasn't decided before the election even hit the Manitoba/Ontario border. Western Canada has to accept what the Ontario and Quebec voters decide. That gives me a bigger reason to gripe than you. Now, I understand all about Rep. by Pop., but other countries have figured out how to avoid having one geographic area of a country dominate the country's politics...its called an Elected Senate! Have Canadian politicians figured this out yet? They have, but the Fat Cat politicians got their snouts so far into the pork barrel they'll never let go of power. Remember the Reform Party? Their slogan was: "The West Wants In!" How was the Reform Party going to achieve this? By instituting a "Triple E" Senate...Elected, Equal, and Effective. The nervous tittering of Eastern politicians into their morning lattes resounded through the land! They and their media buddies from the CBC, CBUFT, and the Eastern print press got together and did a hatchet job on the Reform Party, calling them rascists and western separatists. You know the end result...throw enough shite and eventually some of it sticks!
I understand your sentiments and comments however you need to walk a mile in the shoes of a Canadian taxpayer and voter from the West to truly understand what a poor democracy Canada truly is.

CHIMO!

RHClarke · #22 04-02-06, 22:55

Mr Harper takes on the mantle of PM on Monday. I am sure that he will strike a balance between the two solitudes (we Eastern bastards known for freezing in the cold, and the wild West). This will not happen overnight and the Liberal press will find a way to make it seem to be a bad thing that the West has gained influence in "Sucking Central" (AKA Ottawa - a native word that means: Where your tax dollars get wasted). It will be a nice change from listening to the usual seditionist whining.

BTW, it's good to see a Tall Texan standing up for our West...by the way, how far is your ranch from Austin or El Paso? I'll be in the neighbour hood next month.

Politics: Poly = many. Tics = sucking pests.

sapper740 · #23 05-02-06, 18:38

Quote:

[i]Originally posted by RHClark

BTW, it's good to see a Tall Texan standing up for our West...by the way, how far is your ranch from Austin or El Paso? I'll be in the neighbour hood next month.

Politics: Poly = many. Tics = sucking pests. [/B]

Actually, I'm a Texadian and I'm forming a support group called:

(C)anadians (L)iving (I)n (T)exas

I'll have to come up with a short, snappy name for the group so it will instantly recognizeable. Any ideas?

So, what days are you in Texas?
Distance-wise...I'm 230 miles from Austin and a whopping 630 miles from El Paso (10 hr. drive). If you're going to be in Austin you're only a 4 hr. drive from Corinth and even closer to Dave in Belton. (Dave, you live in Belton or Killeen?) If you're in Austin on the 3rd weekend in March you can take in Dave's show in Belton and if the 4th weekend you can catch the "Battle of the Sigfried Line" in College Station. Both are very close to Austin. I'll pm you with my cell no. so if you want to hook up while you're here, give me a call and I'll show you the sights.

CHIMO!

RHClarke · #24 05-02-06, 23:05

Might be a tad sensitive abbreviation, which might get some folks right worked up...Could be worse - ask our Canadian UN Truckers...

230 miles, eh? Is that one or two yards over? I will be travelling with a group and won't be calling the shots...just a worker bee, me. Once I get the training and social calendar I will PM details.

In the meanwhile, gotta polish up the two-step and build up the margarita tolerance! Yee-haw!

Tony Smith · #25 06-02-06, 02:17

Quote:

Originally posted by sapper740
Actually, I'm a Texadian and I'm forming a support group called:

(C)anadians (L)iving (I)n (T)exas

I'll have to come up with a short, snappy name for the group so it will instantly recognizeable. Any ideas?

CHIMO!

Can't think of a short, snappy name for your group, but I have a slogan for you "We're Canuck-Texans! Don't rub us up the wrong way"

RHClarke · #26 06-02-06, 21:35

What was said:

So who's blaming Quebec? And why are you so defensive? There are some Quebeckers (Turdeau, Mulroney, Cretin and Martin) who are ultimately responsible for the state of affairs in this country, but no one is blaming Quebec.

The Rebuttal:

Quote:

Originally posted by John McGillivray
Paul Martin is from Ontario. He was born in Windsor, Ontario in 1938. He grew up in Ottawa and studied philosophy and history at St. Michael’s College at the University of Toronto and is a graduate of the University of Toronto Law School. He was called to the bar in Ontario in 1966. So you can blame Ontario for the way PM turned out.

Counterpoint:

In 1988, Martin was first elected as the Member of Parliament for LaSalle-Émard - and to my knowledge still is the MP for that riding. The riding is located in western Montreal...which I think is still in Quebec. Mr Martin has a farm south of Montreal... During the English language debate (which of course was hijacked by the Quebec question) he stated "I'm a Quebecker..."

So, given that he was elected in Montreal, lives (part time) near Montreal, has spent most the past two and half decades working out of a Quebec riding office, and avers that he is a Quebecker, it naturally follows that he is a Quebecker. That is if you don't follow the almost discriminatory/racist "pur laine" rule of thumb for admission to this unique society...

I suppose we in Ontario can take some of the "blame" for allowing him to prosper, but we in Ontario didn't vote him in.

Come on up to Ottawa and I set you up with some good beer and really tell you what I think about YOUR politicians.

A vous, mon ami...

cmperry4 · #27 12-02-06, 03:05

And speaking of Paul Hellyer: http://ufocasebook.com/hellyer.html

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #28 15-02-06, 23:20

Well,we can now forget about icebreakers.There was a reprinted article from a Toronto newspaper in our local rag today,guessing who'd last longer in government,the REFORM Party(oh!excuse me-Conservative party) under Harper or Joe Clark.There's a God up there somewhere.Thank God.

RHClarke · #29 16-02-06, 00:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Garry Shipton
Well,we can now forget about icebreakers.There was a reprinted article from a Toronto newspaper in our local rag today,guessing who'd last longer in government,the REFORM Party(oh!excuse me-Conservative party) under Harper or Joe Clark.There's a God up there somewhere.Thank God.

Garry,

Yes, I miss the squeaky clean Liberals too...If your prediction comes true, what can we look forward to?

Knife registry?
Baseball bat registry?
Golf club registry?
Crow bar registry?
Manatory emasculation of the remaining heteros in government service?
No white males need apply (oops, already got that one)?
Trillion dollar boondogles?
One mean boyscout to defend all of Canada?
The demise of team sports?
More squeaky wheel pandering?
Handover of government to the Supreme Court?
The end of sovereignty?
City states of Toronto and Mount Royal?
The closure of all city armouries (Soldiers? In our Cities?)?

Wishful thinking (a rare activity) for liberals...Nice to see you waited 10 days to judge a Parliament that has not yet sat. Isn't it a liberal thing to be tolerant? Oh yeah, it's selective tolerance...

The Liberals ran on their record and lost (stupid strategy that they failed to understand - and apparently still don't). They deserve time in the woodshed for their lies, deceit and abuse of the taxpayer. They deserve to be punished - just like we did to Brian Mulroney and his cabal.

It would be interesting to hear a Liberal whine about the new government's ethics...are you up to it?

sapper740 · #30 16-02-06, 03:28

Quote:

Originally posted by RHClarke
Garry,

Yes, I miss the squeaky clean Liberals too...If your prediction comes true, what can we look forward to?

Knife registry?
Baseball bat registry?
Golf club registry?
Crow bar registry?
Manatory emasculation of the remaining heteros in government service?
No white males need apply (oops, already got that one)?
Trillion dollar boondogles?
One mean boyscout to defend all of Canada?
The demise of team sports?
More squeaky wheel pandering?
Handover of government to the Supreme Court?
The end of sovereignty?
City states of Toronto and Mount Royal?
The closure of all city armouries (Soldiers? In our Cities?)?

Wishful thinking (a rare activity) for liberals...Nice to see you waited 10 days to judge a Parliament that has not yet sat. Isn't it a liberal thing to be tolerant? Oh yeah, it's selective tolerance...

The Liberals ran on their record and lost (stupid strategy that they failed to understand - and apparently still don't). They deserve time in the woodshed for their lies, deceit and abuse of the taxpayer. They deserve to be punished - just like we did to Brian Mulroney and his cabal.

It would be interesting to hear a Liberal whine about the new government's ethics...are you up to it?

Hear! Hear!