Pass plate

[Captain]

On pictures of military vehicles taken from the rear, there is a plate with the word PASS written on it. What is the purpose of these plates?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Captain
On pictures of military vehicles taken from the rear, there is a plate with the word PASS written on it. What is the purpose of these plates?

These PASS plates were reversible, they slid in to a holder. On the other side was the Unit sign / Tac sign, if you had a breakdown, the sign was reversed to tell other vehicles you could not proceed, therefore telling them to pass.

[Roland Koster]

Hi there, that's an interesting theory. I always thought they were used so people knew which side to pass. Because the English and Canadian weren't used to drive on the right side of the road. Also when approaching vehicles on desert roads is sometimes difficult to see/understand at which side the upcomming vehicle will pass.
It's only a theory though. (p.s. I do have an original (from stock) pass-sign holder. I got it years ago from Canada.)

I wonder if there's a theory which can be confirmed...

Roland

[cliff]

Richard is correct they were used on convoy vehicles that were stopped for whatever reason to tell the rest of the convoy to keep moving and not stop.

[Roland Koster]

all right. That's sorted out then :-)

thanks!

Roland

[Gunner]

Not to be a fly in the ointment but why have the plates on the front... convoys tend to follow.

There must be a reference in MT instructions from the period.

Cheers! Mike

[Roland Koster]

I knew it!!! :-) there must be on other reason fot those plates.

p.s. many vehicles are also suplied with a sign saying:"cauting, left hand drive". So their must be much confusion in which side to drive/ overtake / overall roadrules etc.

any othere possibles ideas...?

[cliff]

Originally posted by globalkoster
I knew it!!! :-) there must be on other reason fot those plates.

p.s. many vehicles are also suplied with a sign saying:"cauting, left hand drive". So their must be much confusion in which side to drive/ overtake / overall roadrules etc.

any othere possibles ideas...?

The caution Left Hand Drive sign was put into force in England as a warning to one and all while the US forces were there prior to D Day.

Vehicles 'PASS' each other from both directions. The sign is for all vehicles approaching not just the Convoy vehicles.

an extract from Original orders Australian Forces

Q.NNG/MJ COPY SECRET
51/402/397
Army Headquarters,
Victoria Barracks.
MELBOURNE. S C 1
27 Feb 42.
SM 3636
VEHICLE MARKING IN WAR - UNIT SIGNS

3. Particular attention is drawn to the frequent misuse of the sign plates i.e. showing the word
“PASS” outwards, as it is an official demand for traffic priority. The purpose of the PASS sign is to
indicate that the vehicle has stopped and may be passed. Before the vehicle moves on the plate must be
turned to the normal position concealing the word “PASS”.

[Rich Payne]

Peter Hodges in "British Military Markings 1939 - 1945" is a bit vague on dates but states "At one time during the early part of the war, the Arm of Service mark took the form of a reversible plate...had the word 'Pass' in white on a khaki background and this aspect was shown in the event of a mechanical breakdown. The arrangement did not survive long and the Arm of Service mark was then painted directly."

Michael D Taylor in the updated version goes on to say that formation and unit serials were painted directly by 1942 but that plates and holders were to be retained until unserviceable. RASC Transport Companies seem to have retained them for longer.

[Godwin Hampton]

Originally posted by globalkoster

It's only a theory though. (p.s. I do have an original (from stock) pass-sign holder. I got it years ago from Canada.)


Roland

Roland,

Would you be so kind as to post pictures, dimensions, etc. of the 'PASS' plate holder?

We have made up a few, using guesswork and working from photos, but since there is one in captivity......

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Godwin Hampton
Roland,

Would you be so kind as to post pictures, dimensions, etc. of the 'PASS' plate holder?

We have made up a few, using guesswork and working from photos, but since there is one in captivity......

It should fit on a scanner - that way we'll see it flat and square and you can create a same size jpeg tp email to those interested. It will be too big to post here full size though.

[Tony Smith]

Original "Pass" sign in it's Vehicle Unit Sign bracket:

[Tony Smith]

Modern day survivor (the rear brace appears slightly different?):

[Tony Smith]

The plate was 8 1/2in wide and 9in high. The lettering of the "Pass" was stated in orders to be 5 1/2in high, but it would appear in the B+W pic I posted to be about 3in high.

The use of the "Pass" sign on the back of the unit tac sign is mentioned in Aust standing orders from Apr 40 to Mar 67.

[Roland Koster]

no problem, I'll have a look this weekend. it should be somewhere i my shed...

[Gunner]

If the plates and/or "caution" signs were introduced to avoid confusion for drivers more comfortable with the right hand side of the road, I suspect it was Canadians not Americans that forced the issue. Our esteemed cousins to the South didn't arrive in Blighty until 1942 after Pearl Harbour.

When did the "Caution" signs become mandatory?

Mike

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by globalkoster
p.s. many vehicles are also suplied with a sign saying:"caution, left hand drive". So their must be much confusion in which side to drive/ overtake / overall roadrules etc.

The confusion doesn't relate to not understanding which side of the road to drive on or not knowing the road rules, but rather that in the days prior to widespread fitment of indicators and large, bright brakelights, the driver of a vehicle was required to give a handsignal when turning right or braking. If the vehicle was LHD, the warning was there for following vehicles to not look for a hand when the vehicle was slowing/stopping or when turning right.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

The back brace arm is part of the plate. When it was manufactured, the stamping cut a tongue in the back. If mounted flat against rear panel of vehicle, one left it untouched. If mounted on front, e.g. Cab 11 or 12 CMP, one folded it back so that bolt hole fitted under headlight leading edge so headlight mounting bolt could be removed, the plate brace slid in, then the bolt reinstalled. The two variations shown in photos above simply show how soldiers bent the back brace.

Have a look at my web site's page on Cdn vehicle markings.
http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/markings_...y_vehicles.htm

The CAUTION LEFT HAND DRIVE is a separate issue.



COLIN

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's a scan of an original pass sign holder off my 2A1 box. On the 2A1 it just used three of the bolts to hold it on. The other one was out in the open. The image is actual size.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

The image is upside down.

This shows one I had with back bracing arm partly bent back. I added the little white dots on the picture to show the fold-over edges.

Main body width is 21.7 cm
Width including the attaching tabs (2 on each side) 23.9 cm
Height 24 cm

Made out of one pieces of sheet metal.

Here is an original PASS plate. This shows the other side with the UNIT SIGN. This particular one was repainted on this side only in the 1970s by a previous owner. I got this from Dr. William Gregg, but he had not painted it.




COLIN

[cletrac (RIP)]

If you print the image I posted with Photoshop or the like, and print without scaling it, it will print actual size. On most printers it will be too big for the page so you'll have to print one that doesn't go off the left side of the page and ditto for the right side and join the two.
Colin, how did you manage to post an image that's 1800 pixels wide? It's not supposed to accept one that"s more than 700 wide.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

At the moment I can only post links to photos that I have on the Internet.

Having been away from MLU for a couple of years I have forgotten how to post an ordinary JPEG that I have on my computer to MLU.

I have tried and ... no luck. I would welcome a refresher training instruction because I have hundreds of photos I'd like to share when it helps to answer someone's question or to illustrate a point - historical, photos taken of rare vehicles and weapons etc.

Using "IMG" does not work as it won't allow one to browse, only put in a URL of a photo already on the Internet.


SO ... HOW DOES ONE INSERT PHOTOS (not already on Internet) INTO MESSAGE TO MLU?

[RHClarke]

Originally posted by Colin Macgregor Stevens
At the moment I can only post links to photos that I have on the Internet.



SO ... HOW DOES ONE INSERT PHOTOS (not already on Internet) INTO MESSAGE TO MLU?

It takes some practice but it really is quite simple. Save the photo as Jpeg with a width of 700 pixels or less (most photo editing software allows you to save in various formats). Save the photo to your desktop or in a folder. Go to MLU and reply to a thread or start a new one. At the bottom of the text field you will see a Browse button - click on it and navigate to your desktop or folder. Find the photo you wish to attach. Click save and the Browse field will get populated with the link to the photo. Click Submit Reply. Magic!