Carrier fuel pipes

[Tom Millward]

Does anyone know where I can get the flexible fuel pipes (CTL 7213) that run from the fuel tanks to the fuel change over valve? I presume they are easy to get made if you know the thread for the fittings at each end and the length of the hose?

I have the fuel pick up and the change over valve, are they both BSP?

Cheers,

[Ron Pier]

I got mine made up by a local firm here in Bournemouth http://www.threadandpipe.com/
The change over valve also came from them, but I've change that for an original now.

Any firm who makes up hoses and hydraulic fittings will do it. like 'Hypehose' I guess the fittings are all BSP as I don't remember changing anything when I fitted the original changeover valve. Ron

[Mike Gurr]

Hi Tom,
The fittings both ends definitely are BSP, can't remember which size as I took my old hose to the firm as a pattern.
Mike

[Ron Pier]

I'm fairly sure it's all standard 1/4 BSP. Which should be easy to determine from the threads on the tank and changeover valve.

Gas/pipe threads can be confusing but in a nutshell:-
1/8 BSP = 3/8" actual outside diameter of thread
1/4 BSP = 1/2" " " " "
3/8 BSP = 5/8" " " " "

Ron

[Tom Millward]

Does anyone know the length for a Mk1 (fuel changeover valve is near the oil cooler outlet)?

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Tom Millward

Does anyone know the length for a Mk1 (fuel changeover valve is near the oil cooler outlet)?

Slight length variations and fitting styles can be observed between the MK-I and MK-I* flexible fuel hose assemblies running from the fuel tank pickup fitting to the three way fuel valve (tank selector switch)

British MK-I 9/40 dated flexible fuel hose measures +- 19-1/4”.
Canadian MK-I* 1942 dated flexible fuel hose measures +- 19-3/4”.
Canadian MK-I* 1943 dated flexible fuel hose measures +- 20”.

Canadian made ‘three-way’ fuel valves are fitted with three adapters, CTL 3485B.
There are at least three versions of this valve: early Canadian MK-I* carriers used a British supplied valve, followed by a Canadian made valve C01UC 106011 ‘B’ series that attached the fuel hose ‘straight’ on, followed by the ‘C’ series that attached the fuel hose at an angle, allowing the fuel hose to be routed without fowling against the transmission top hat.
These valves are not interchangeable with the ‘two-way’ valve found on the C31UCW NO-2 MK-II* carrier.

Each flexible fuel hose was supported by a ‘Clip - fuel pipe and fittings, CTL 7212. The clip was fastened to the transmission using the existing transmission top bolt(s).

[Tom Millward]

Thanks for all the informationmstion. I can now get some pipes made up at my local hose place. The info on the valve was also very valuable, I will go and check which valve I have.

Cheeers

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Tom Millward

Thanks for all the informationmstion. I can now get some pipes made up at my local hose place. The info on the valve was also very valuable, I will go and check which valve I have.

Cheeers

The British Chilwell Illustrated parts manual shows two versions of the valve, identified as a ‘tap’.
Their (Chilwell) illustrated parts manual may be more instructive than the Canadian FUC-03 as some dimensions may be given along with part numbers.

[Michael R.]

Continuing with the last page from the British Chilwell parts manual: the details for the part numbers 54, 55, and 56 of this illustration show sizes for nipple, nut, tubing as well as length for that portion of rigid fuel line from the valve/tap to the fuel pump.

[Tom Millward]

Thank you, that answered my next questioned well; which was ‘what’s the screw size for the fuel pick up?’. From the parts list they are 2BA x 3/8”.

Is that the Fuel tank strap setup for a UK Carrier, as it seems different to the images I have seen of canadian tanks?

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Tom Millward

(paraphrased) . . . Is that the Fuel tank strap setup for a UK Carrier, as it seems different to the images I have seen of canadian tanks?

The Canadian produced MK-I* fuel tank straps use a different tensioning turnbuckle to that shown in the British Chilwell manual, while the Canadian MK-II* fuel tank strap uses a similar system as the British one. The change in turnbuckles means there is a change in the length of the straps. Other than historical accuracy, a complete strap assembly could be interchangeable between the MK-I* and MK-II* carrier, as are the felt pads. The MK-II tensioning turnbuckle is easier to work with.

See pages 200 and 201 of FUC03 for illustrations of the strap assemblies, a portion of the MK-I* strap assembly illustration reproduced below . . .

In the ‘Parts’ section of the forum you can find a posting from a UK based MLU member who makes some replacement carrier parts, including the difficult to source Canadian style MK-I* fuel tank turnbuckles.

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[Lynn Eades]

The Brit image in Post#9 is of a later era Brit construction. The change tap with the two thumb screws is from a Brit MkIIIw carrier. Not sure of the change date to the later strap arrangement. The earlier strap arrangement from Canadian and British varies little. The differences being spot welded strap ends verses small rivets. The turnbuckle threads are different. (Brit=Brit. Std. Canadian= UNF) The use of tank breather pipes are used with plain fuel caps, while tanks with no breather pipes use caps with the valve in them. Tank end panels are impressed with a cross and are found with the cross convex and concave.

[Tom Millward]

Thanks gents. I have already put in an order to John W for the fuel filler neck and cap, plus the turn buckles. The fuel straps I intend to get from John and Mid West Military. I did consider making the the fuel straps and mounting brackets, but the work involved in the brackets looked pretty immense and I just don’t have the time or workshop facilities at the moment.

I’ve made the fuel tank vents, and have just ordered some pipe and fittings for the vent pipes. I’m looking forward to getting the tanks finished and plan to start silver soldering tomorrow.

The one issue I have is the new tanks that came with my Carrier have the holes for the fuel pickup too far forward, so they may clash with the fuel tank strap or cause the pipe to clash. I will just have to improvise adapt and overcome.

[Tom Millward]

I have another question on the Carrier fuel tank setup; the new stainless steel fuel tanks which came with my Carrier have the hole for fuel pickup in the wrong place. Will this placement cause the fuel pickup to clash with the fuel tank strap? Hence will I need to modify the tank, or will it be ok to leave it as it is?

I need to modify the tank anyway as the whole for the fuel pickup is too large, but was thinking of making an adapter ring for this. The picture below is of my new tank next to an original.

Thanks again.

Attachment 104593

[Michael R.]

Heads up!
The fuel tank end sections are inset. As a result the overall length of the inset portions must not exceed a dimension that will permit the installation of the front and rear felt pads when mounted on their respective brackets.

The exposed lengthwise seam will enjoy being supported by the internal baffles. The reason for suggesting these guidelines will be clear if you ever allow passengers in the rear compartment.

If your experience is similar to mine, I find little enjoyment in removing and replacing the fuel tank assemblies. However, it is necessary for multiple reasons including cleaning the hull to re-oiling the felts.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Tom Millward

I have another question on the Carrier fuel tank setup; the new stainless steel fuel tanks which came with my Carrier have the hole for fuel pickup in the wrong place. Will this placement cause the fuel pickup to clash with the fuel tank strap? Hence will I need to modify the tank, or will it be ok to leave it as it is?

I need to modify the tank anyway as the whole for the fuel pickup is too large, but was thinking of making an adapter ring for this. The picture below is of my new tank next to an original.

Thanks again.

Attachment 104593

I am curious if your fuel tank sludge drains line up with the hull floor access opening? Otherwise you cannot access the drain plugs from below.

There is a rotating cover for those hull drain openings. Not having the covers in place allows debris to enter the hull, out of sight and out of mind. When driven over mud, the drain opening acts like a cheese slicer, allowing the mud to enter the hull in neat curls.

For the same reason you may want your transmission and engine oil drain access covers in place.
Eh, Ben, Shaun, Richie and Kevin?

[kevin powles]

Maybe best to make a couple of new tanks in stainless now you have an original to work with, they might of copied the one you have from an Australian built carrier. John W has all the fitting to order.

[Tom Millward]

Thanks Michael R for the tip about access covers. I do intend to drive the Carrier across country, so that’s saved me some heart ache.

The drain plug is in the right place, as per the original I have borrowed. The tank is also inset on the end panels, so should fit with the mounting brackets as intended. The hole for the fuel pickup doesn’t sit above the drain plug like the original though. That said the fuel pickup still fits ok.

[Tom Millward]

Hi Kevin, it’s tempting, but the work to rectify mine is probably less than the work to start all over again (certainly cheaper).

How hard was it to make yours? Did you do it yourself or have it made? John W has made me the filler neck and cap, I’m just waiting on a quote for the adapter ring for the fuel pickup.

Anyone any idea how the brass fuel pickup and filler neck were riveted to the tank. Was it done before the tank was closed up, or using special tools?

[kevin powles]

My next door neighbor made my fuel tanks, he has since moved house due to my unsocial behaviour in making noise with my grinder etc. I still have the swagging tool for the ends. The pictures I posted show the repro tank on the right. Happy to lend you the tool.

[Lynn Eades]

Tom, the pick up pipe lines up exactly with the drain plug the drain plug and casting function as a sump which the pick up pipe pokes into. Normally the end of the pipe is blanked off and the fuel is drawn through the screen through a hole in the side of the pipe.
As a note the Australians added a ring to the plug casting which acts as a barrier to prevent water in the bottom of the tank from getting into the area that fuel is drawn from. A good idea I thought.

[David Herbert]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

As a note the Australians added a ring to the plug casting which acts as a barrier to prevent water in the bottom of the tank from getting into the area that fuel is drawn from. A good idea I thought.

Does that not prevent any water (or the last bit of fuel) from being drained out ?

David

[Tom Millward]

Thanks Lynn, I have ordered a steel blanking plate to weld into the incorrect hole, and will add a hole in the correct position. John W is making the brass adapter ring for the fuel pick up.

Both the adapter ring and the fuel filler look to be riveted and then soldered into place. How do you rivet them in place when you can only get to one side of the rivet?

Cheers,

[tankbarrell]

You fit them before you put the tank ends in.....

[Tom Millward]

Thanks Adrian, that makes sense. I guess I'll have to just solder it or use screws and nyloc nuts.

P.S. I've seen the work you've done on the Garrison's kit, I'm in awe of your metal craft!

[tankbarrell]

Thank you Tom, I do try!

[Lynn Eades]

David. Yes agree that what you say would be the case. However it would hold a fairly large amount of water from getting to the pickup, along with any build up of ..............crud.
The end of the pick up pokes into the drain plug. Probably anti vibration support.
Tom, there is a baffle in each tank. It is basically a tank end with the four corners snipped off. This should help save your tank, when a large inconsiderate passenger plants his size 10 or his diff on your tank.