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  #1  
Old 24-10-04, 09:34
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default Bombay Chev

Here is a picture of a Chevrolet 1541X3 3-ton 4x2 GS truck, known as "Bombay Chev". Does anybody have any other views of this type of truck, especially the cargo body?

Thanks,
Hanno

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Name:	8e00200r.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	55.3 KB
ID:	61173
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8e0000...0/8e00200r.jpg
Source: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsowhome.html

CAPTION: The old and the new meet on a military highway in India. Though motor transports carry much of the supplies, the camel, which has been the beast of burden from time immemorial, is drafted to do his part in the war effort also.

CREATED/PUBLISHED: 1942?

NOTES
Title and other information from caption card.

Iamge source: U.S. Army Signal Corps.

Transfer; United States. Office of War Information. Overseas Picture Division. Washington Division; 1944.

SUBJECTS
Film negatives.
India.

MEDIUM
1 negative ; 4 x 5 inches or smaller.

CALL NUMBER
LC-USW33- 000364-ZC

REPRODUCTION NUMBER
LC-USW33-000364-ZC DLC (b&w film neg.)

PART OF
Farm Security Administration - Office of War Information Photograph Collection (Library of Congress)

REPOSITORY
Library of Congress Prints and Photographs Division Washington, D.C. 20540

DIGITAL ID
(intermediary roll film) fsa 8e00200 http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/fsa.8e00200
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  #2  
Old 24-10-04, 13:03
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David_Hayward (RIP) David_Hayward (RIP) is offline
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Default It's that photo again!

The very same image appeared in a 1943-4 Chevrolet advertisment in the USA with various other 'thumbnails'. I have a Xerox of the 1944 GMOO book that has a photo of some Indian CMPs together with in the background a 1543X1 and I will see if I can scan it shortly.
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  #3  
Old 24-10-04, 22:35
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Default Re: It's that photo again!

Quote:
Originally posted by David_Hayward
I have a Xerox of the 1944 GMOO book that has a photo of some Indian CMPs together with in the background a 1543X1 and I will see if I can scan it shortly.
Thanks! Main interest is the angle iron and wood GS body and the simple canvas roof, both typical for "Indian Pattern" CMPs.

H.
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Old 25-10-04, 00:30
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Hanno:

Usual problems, I have a new scanner installed and have the normal headaches with the editing program. Let us see if it works. All photos I am trying to forward are ex Bart Vanderveen "leftovers" that I think he did not publish. If any are duplicate, my apologies.

Sadly these are all I have but I bet David has some info and there must be some India Fans on the Board.

Bill
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indiachev1.jpg   indiachev4.jpg   indiachev5.jpg   indiachev3.jpg   indiachev2.jpg  

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Old 25-10-04, 18:49
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Default AHAH!

Bill's photo of the 1938 Model Chevrolet truck is one of those assembled by GM Near East in Alexandria and used by the Trans-Jordan Frontier Force! That is a very rare shot....a similar one is in WHEELS & TRACKS Desert Chevrolet issue and GM OVERSEAS OPERATIONS' 1944 book.

The Bombay Chevs were assembled by GM India Limited in Bombay.

Last edited by David_Hayward (RIP); 25-10-04 at 20:17.
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  #6  
Old 25-10-04, 19:55
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Thanks David:
Here is a mystery one. A Ford, but still maybe an Indian one.
I know what the Ford is but where is the photo taken?
The sign above the sedan on the right side says Maple Leaf Grill.
I was told it was tken in Ceylon. Sorry for the quality, the web site is no longer there and I made a paper copy rather than a copy of the photo itself.
bill
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  #7  
Old 25-10-04, 20:15
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Default Canada?

I have seen this shot before. The rego looks to be an Ontario one as used on military vehicles pre-1941. Note the driving on the right..Ceylon drove/drives on the left. However someone is going to give a positive answer so I'll shut up!
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  #8  
Old 25-10-04, 21:03
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Murray
Here is a mystery one. A Ford, but still maybe an Indian one.
I know what the Ford is but where is the photo taken?
The sign above the sedan on the right side says Maple Leaf Grill.
I was told it was tken in Ceylon. Sorry for the quality, the web site is no longer there and I made a paper copy rather than a copy of the photo itself.
I first saw the picture of this Ford Woodie in 2002 when jon carr farrelly posted three pictures on the Missing Lynx Allied discussion group. According to him the pictures were taken at Camp Borden, Canada!

More about the real Indian stuff later

H.
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  #9  
Old 25-10-04, 21:30
Nick Balmer Nick Balmer is offline
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Default Bombay Chevrolet Bodies

Hello Hanno,

I beleive the photo below shows the same body type as your photo does.

Regards

Nick Balmer
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  #10  
Old 25-10-04, 21:34
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Default Bombay Station Wagons

Hello Hanno,

I think the attached photo shows an Indian bodied station wagon. It certainly looks like the sort of work they did.

Regards

Nick Balmer
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Old 25-10-04, 23:11
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Hanno:
Interesting how these photos knock around the world on the internet isn't it? In my case, I copied it to paper off a Russian modelling site in 2001. I did not think Ceylon was the country in which it was taken but that is what one of the members of that site said and since it is now a defunct site I cannot go back and dig up the reference. The Maple Leaf Grille should have been a clue but then it is a RHD early Ford so you never know. I have seen lots of British and Canadian named bars in Commonwealth countries.

As an off topic side note (since you are a PC Guru to me) I notice a new method I am using to access sites is giving me problems.
I have AOL as a provider and I access MLU normally from my "Favorites" tab (Bookmark to other systems). Recently, I have been using the "History" tab to access right to the thread I am interested in as I have so bloody many sites bookmarked it takes forever to find them (AOL does not allow any sequencing of bookmarked sites). In any case, if I post directly to a thread that I got off the "History" tab that post appears complete with pics etc. on that computer only as far as I can tell. I use two home computers (not linked) and one at the shop and unlike when I use the "Bookmark" method of access where every message is the same on all three this new method seems not to work too well. I think that is why I have duplicate pics lately. The Jordanian pic, for example, is not on this PC.
So, I will go back to the old method.

The new Scanner is now not much of a mystery (the editing software actually) so I should be back at it pretty soon.
Cheers
Bill
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  #12  
Old 26-10-04, 00:13
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Default Re: Bombay Station Wagons

Quote:
Originally posted by Nick Balmer
I beleive the photo below shows the same body type as your photo does.
Thanks Nick, it does indeed. Any chance of listing the Pathe film ID so I can try to get a larger still?
Quote:
I think the attached photo shows an Indian bodied station wagon. It certainly looks like the sort of work they did.
See Indian Army vehicles for a link to a picture of a similar(?) Dodge woodie in service with the Fifth Indian Division:
http://www.ku.edu/carrie/specoll/AFS...ges/fire18.jpg

I seem to recall reading these were actually built in the USA - will look up the reference.

Thanks,
Hanno
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  #13  
Old 26-10-04, 00:28
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Default GM and Ford India

Both GM and Ford had subsidiaries in Bombay, although Ford of India was a Ford of Canada subsidiary...big difference! Both seem to have produced their own bodies and both companies also had a thriving export market including to Afghanistan.
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Old 26-10-04, 21:52
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Default Re: Re: Bombay Station Wagons

Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
I seem to recall reading these were actually built in the USA - will look up the reference.
When I looked it up on p.111 of Crismon's U.S. Military Wheeled Vehicles, it turned out to be the other way round, actually: "Wooden-bodied station wagons were perhaps no longer being procured in the US for military use, but in India things were different. Shipped from the US in "CKD" (completely knocked down) mode, this Dodge was assembled by local labor in Calcutta, India. The locally fabricated body was designed as a mobile command post which included a desk, table and bed. It was destined for use in China. (US Army Signal Still Photo Depository)"
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Old 26-10-04, 23:28
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Default Mercury wagon

I looked up in my Lincoln-Mercury book and saw that the 1941 Mercury wagon which used the same basic body as the Ford debuted that year. I assume that Ford of Canada offered their own Mercury version, and rhd as they did with Mercury sedans in '40. We know that some rhd Mercury sedans were used by the military and ended up in the UK.
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Old 27-10-04, 00:04
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Maybe some more with luck

Another

And one more. These may well be OZ chevs, there was no notation attached to the pics and I forget where I got them from for the moment. It at least looks like Indian Force types trying to get the lorrie out of the swamp.

Bill

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  #17  
Old 27-10-04, 00:23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Murray
I forget where I got them from for the moment
Here you go: MVT South Cumbria & North Lancs:
Quote:
"The Long nosed Chevrolet 3 ton was a two wheel drive vehicle that found life difficult in India and Burma. The wet, muddy terrain bogged down the vehicles, so they were eventually replaced with the four wheel drive snub nosed Chevys, the one below being fitted as a recovery wagon. Note that the first of these pictures shows a roll of barbed wire being carried on the front of the truck. Would you damage the paintwork of your neatly restored vehicle for the sake of this reality? Note also the third picture shows the row of three petrol cans just to the right of the gentleman on the running board. These were fairly small in comparison with Jerry cans which were larger and did not leak unlike the British petrol can."
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Old 27-10-04, 00:43
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Hanno:

Firstly, sorry I did not add to your resources on Bombay Chevs.
Funnily enough, I have never seen nor heard of that particular site which reinforces my earlier post that you find the most interesting photos on widely divergent sites, from the West to the East to the Orient and so on.
I believe I "harvested" those pics from as many sites as there are pics.

To the Dodge pics, somewhere I have a catalogue page regarding a company called Cantrell that I believe did Dodge station waggons right up through the early 1940s. If I find it I will post it. As to your pic from Fred Crismon's book, I believe that is a Burma Dodge peeking out on the far right hand side.

I think Bart did an article on those vehicles, have to check, but they were a very small but interesting series of vehicles that are within our field of interest.

It will never end, will it, this search for the Holy Grail.
Bill

PS: I had an interview with my Doctor today and my Meds have been completely changed.

This may mean that my posts from here forward may make sense which may be a bit of a pity.

Sadly, one of the changes is to go to a very aggressive dieuretic, sh==t can't spell it right, but it means I will be merrily pissing away all day.
On the other hand, I may not be keeping my Pat up all night with my coughing and hopefully not be so damned tired all the time.

Getting older is not a whole lot of fun.


g

Bill
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  #19  
Old 27-10-04, 08:24
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Default Indian Pattern truck in Iran

Hello Hanno,

The original source of the photo I sent you comes from the following URL

http://imagen.britishpathe.com/scrip...00000015&sif=0

It shows Indian Troops advancing into Iran in 1941. We were jointly occupying the country with Russia.

I think these troops are ether Gurkas or Garwalis from the region just south of Nepal.

Is it a 30cwt or a 3 tonner?

Is it a Chevrolet? I am unsure because it appears to have a hinged bonnet flap which comes down from the hood half way to the mudguards. Chevy bonnet flaps reach a curved line over the mud guard I beleive.

Regards

Nick Balmer

Regards
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Old 27-10-04, 08:34
Nick Balmer Nick Balmer is offline
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Default Indian Pattern 15 Cwt on CMP chassis

Hello Hanno,

The same file on the following frame has a very good overhead shot of a CMP Number 11 cab?

http://imagen.britishpathe.com/scrip...00000009&sif=0

This must be a very early example of an Indian Pattern body on a CMP chassis, as distinct from a militarised civilan chassis.

I beleive the troops are Madras Sappers and Miners, as the type of turban they are wearing was I beleive unique to them.

Regards

Nick Balmer
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Old 27-10-04, 09:01
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Default Indian Pattern truck in Iran

the photo above the CMP looks more like a Ford to me. either 39 or 40.

cheers
Cliff
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  #22  
Old 29-10-04, 21:00
Nick Balmer Nick Balmer is offline
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Default Another Indian Chevrolet

Hello Hanno,

I have just stumbled across another Indian bodies Chevrolet. It can be found at the following URL

http://imagen.britishpathe.com/scrip...00000015&sif=0

This one is operating on the airfields feeding the flights over the Hump into China.

1147.21 | OVER THE HUMP (1:47:16:00 - 1:49:22:00) 26/02/1945

Regards

Nick Balmer
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Old 03-11-04, 12:55
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Default Another one?

Hello All,

This could be another Bombay Chev. Photo was taken in the 40s during the Greek Civil War, but exact location and date are unknown to me. I think another one is shown at:
http://www.ku.edu/carrie/specoll/AFS...es/tiger63.jpg
a picture from the online version of "the Tiger triumphs".

Best Regards
Aris Kosionidis
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Old 03-11-04, 23:13
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Evening Aris:

Two great and new to me photos. I do believe the first is a Dodge and for certain, the second one is. Look on the Dodge D-15 D-60 thread down just a bit from this one for several photos of Dodges.

Thanks again for the pictures.
Bill
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Old 28-11-04, 21:02
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Hanno found this one in the AWM data banks yesterday
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Old 28-11-04, 21:40
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Cliff:
Just got home from the store and read your last. I believe you have two-three more Bombays on one or more of the CDs you sent I have just not had time to look yet. Pat and I are into our 7 day a week pattern until after Christmas at the store so my posts will be catch as catch can for the next month.
Bill
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Old 28-11-04, 21:48
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Bill I am sure there is more in my archives and as I 're-find' them I will post if I think they are new ones.

I am just in the process of totally tidying up and adding/replacing and properly identifying a lot of pictures and when I have finished doing this I will send you a couple of new disks and also update and renew my 'Roo's Truck Archives" on armorama.

I am also trying to remove any double ups of pics at the same time.

cheers
Cliff
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Old 28-11-04, 23:11
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Cliff:

Best of luck on the "tidying". I am going through the same thought process and I wonder if I will live long enough to ID all of them and get rid of the duplicates too. I hope my photo editing program will help but I fear every time I change the photo ID the program will not recognize the new name and if I have it two/three times it will not alert me.

I spent an hour fast forwarding through the discs you sent as well as the Mr. Roo site and alas, most of the ones I thought were Bombay Chevs were in fact India Pattern Ambulances which have already been pretty well covered.

I also spent a half hour on Google trying various combinations of words to see if anything would pop up but without success.

Eventually, we will find a good source for these Indian sourced vehicles I am sure.
Bill
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Old 29-11-04, 22:29
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Default Re: Indian Pattern 15 Cwt on CMP chassis

Quote:
Originally posted by Nick Balmer
The same file on the following frame has a very good overhead shot of a CMP Number 11 cab?

http://imagen.britishpathe.com/scrip...00000009&sif=0

This must be a very early example of an Indian Pattern body on a CMP chassis, as distinct from a militarised civilan chassis.
Thanks Nick, excellent shot of a type of CMP I have never seen before. Must be an Indian assembled one, as it has typical features like the soft top cab without windshield and basic angle-iron-and-wood GS cargo body. This must have been the forerunner of the other Indian pattern 15-cwt CMP you spotted on Pathé.

Cliff, Bill, thanks for your input as well. Indeed, eventually we will find a good source for these Indian pattern vehicles! Anybody here with a distant cousin in India?

H.

Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 21-03-18 at 11:57. Reason: fixed link
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Old 30-11-04, 01:08
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Hanno this may be what you are after......

Pic from AWM data banks
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