Bren Mag Loader

[Lynn Eades]

How many models of the mag loader are there?
I know there is one with a fixed handle and one with a folding handle.
I have one with a folding handle but it doesn't want to fit in the tin.
What am I doing wrong?

[Colin Alford]

Lynn,

I am in a similar situation. A few years ago I obtained a Bren mag loader and when I got it home I was very eager to put it in it's rightful place in the bin. I quickly realized that the loader did not sit nicely in the bin and I could not close the lid.

I studied as many images of Bren mag loaders as I could find and determined that some of them (mine included and I suspect yours) have two extra lugs that extend below the base. I suspect that this was a "product improvement" to allow that edge of the loader to be hooked over the edge of a box, or other object, for increased leverage. Unfortunately this modified design does not fit into the stowage bins on the early carriers.

I might be able to obtain some images this evening.

Colin

[Lynn Eades]

Thanks Colin. I know the two lugs / legs you mean. They are about 1/2" high. I did wonder if they were the problem. I'd like to see what the earlier one looks like.

[rob love]

I believe Derk Derin cut those little feet off his so it would fit in the bin. My loading tool did not have those feet and fits just fine.

[derk derin]

I read this post yesterday but didn't want to admit I cut the lower 2 lips off of my loading tool but now that the cats out of the bag,,,,,yes I cut them off and it fits just right in the stowage bin now. I think the earlier one must have not had them on and later produced loading tools they were added to give leverage by hooking it on an edge of table or box?
Derk

[Ron Pier]

Anyone got pictures of these please? Ron

[Dusonn]

Guys, do not forget that the BREN comes from Czechoslovak pre-WWII licence of the ZB26 machine gun, including the mag loading tool. The ZB26 had straight magazine. I think the tool looks very similar but will not fit. I own the ZB26 loader but cannot compare with the Bren one. I will take a picture later.
The Bren loader would probably have the broad arrow stamped on it?

[Marc van Aalderen]

All,

Here are some photos of my Bren magazine loader. This one also has the tabs.





Cheers,

[Dusonn]

I can now see that the ZB26 loader looks different, my hypothesis was wrong

[rob love]

The ZB theory may not be out the window entirely. The Czech factory also produced loaders for the early British guns, as well as for the .303 Brens they sold to other countries. I believe the British loader was copied from the Czech loader, so the feet/no feet could have come into production from either country.

In the attached photo (photo credit to Kev G from the milsurps.com forum) the top 3 loaders are:

B - Czech made loose rounds filler .303 British for British ordered ZGB's with 30 round magazines and Czech export Brens in .303 (note 6 metal dividers,6 stokes = 30 rounds/1 magazine)

D - Czech made 8X56R Mannlicher loose rounds filler for the Bulgarian ZB39 (note 5 metal dividers,5 strokes = 25 rounds/1 magazine)

E - British made Bren MK2 .303 loose rounds filler (6 dividers)

[Robert Bergeron]

Nice Rob.

But the British / Can Mk 1 is entirely different as it will only load from 5 round clips. Does someone have a picture handy for that model or is it model A on Rob's picture ?

If I recall there a no feet on the Mk1 and it should fit the storage box on the MK1 Carrier.

Ford changed from the MK1 Carrier to the MKII because the new Bren mag loader did not fit the box on the MKI ( wink, wink ,smile ) .

Did not make any sense anyway to bother making a specific storage box on an small armoured vehicle for a specific mag loader in the first place !

But for collectors and restorers it's a nice challenge and makes for subject matter for treads on MLU !

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Ford changed from the MK1 Carrier to the MKII because the new Bren mag loader did not fit the box on the MKI ( wink, wink ,smile ) .

Ah, but wait, carrier production history is never that clear cut. My March 1943 Mk.1* has no provision for the mag loader box. Never fitted...which saves me from worrying about this whole discussion!!

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Nice Rob.

But the British / Can Mk 1 is entirely different as it will only load from 5 round clips. Does someone have a picture handy for that model or is it model A on Rob's picture ?

Nope, it is item C on the picture. The loader is made to clamp onto the bren magazine chest I believe.

[Marc van Aalderen]

Loader A is the ZB loader in which you drop a clip with 5 rounds of 7,92x57 Mauser cartridges. The same loader as in Dusan's photo.

Cheers,

[Lynn Eades]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Ah, but wait, carrier production history is never that clear cut. My March 1943 Mk.1* has no provision for the mag loader box. Never fitted...which saves me from worrying about this whole discussion!!

So Bruce, that would be the reason why some battery box lids are missing the 4 mounting holes. I had assumed the mag loader had just moved somewhere else.

[rob love]

By that time the loader was obsolete, since it was found to be quicker to load the magazines by hand than by the loading tool. Of course, it would take a little while to trickle down to the designers at Ford who could make the necessary changes.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

By that time the loader was obsolete, since it was found to be quicker to load the magazines by hand than by the loading tool. Of course, it would take a little while to trickle down to the designers at Ford who could make the necessary changes.

True. That is why late 1943 (or even early 1944?) Mk.1* carriers were still being built with that folding aerial contraption on the rear right complete with the (obsolete since 1941) 11 set aerial base. And no, the Bren magazine loader was not relocated as Rob correctly says.

[Ron Pier]

My 1944 MK2* has this which I believe is something to do with loading the Bren. Can anyone enlighten me please. Ron

[Ben]

Ron, I think that's for loading the circular 100 round magazines.

[Ron Pier]

Ah thanks Ben. I don't know of a provision to stow the other type that this thread is about in my Carrier? Ron

[eddy8men]

ron i'm fairly sure that bracket also comes with the drum mag wooden stowage box

[Lynn Eades]

Ron, As Bruce said. They were obsolete and gone from carriers by early 43.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by eddy8men

ron i'm fairly sure that bracket also comes with the drum mag wooden stowage box

Yes it does.

[Jon Skagfeld]

...and it's sitting atop an appropriate DND blanket.

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

Yes it does.

Ah thanks Bruce. It reminded me of something similar stowed in my carrier and I Just went down for a look. .... It's empty of course. Ron

[Marc van Aalderen]

Although the ends of these loading/unloading brackets are the same for obvious reasons, their total length is not.

[Robert Bergeron]

Agreed with Rob : Charging by hand is quicker and you don't have to lug around a cumbersome contraption. I have filled by hand my share of C-1 and C-2 mags in 7.62 and then later of C-7 mags in 5.56 to have an idea on the subject ! But now i am confused : What contraption / Mag loader was fitted in the Mk 1 Carrier box after all this discussion ??

[rob love]

It is a loader like shown in post #8, but lacking the two little "feet". I have one somewhere in the gunroom that also lacks the little feet, so will fit in the Carrier stowage box. If I spot it, I'll get a photo and post it here.

[derk derin]

Here is my bren mag loader in the stowage bin on my carrier. I cut the 2 feet down to fit in the bin.
Derk

[Robert Bergeron]

Derk, you cut the legs ?? Sacriledge , desecration . . In the service we call it destruction of Her Majesty's property !! But now you own it so you can do all the irreverence you want to it . Jokes aside . What model / Mark actually fit in there ? I own. MkII Carrier so just out of curiosity . Cheers . Bob