Reproduction UC Track availability?

[ajmac]

Chaps,
I've been costing up for a restoration project.... which brought up a question about tracks. Does anyone know if reproduction or NOS track links and pins are available and what are the costs likely to be? On a final note does anyone know of a Mk1 for sale? I saw one on a dealer site but it has gone now.... I know who to, it is coming to the UK, not me though :-(

[RichardT10829]

50 quid says it was Johns carrier, and a further 20 says it was Kevin that has snaffled it

i dont know anywhere that is doing repro track yet, I contacted Staman a while ago to see if they would do it, they have done repro tracks for Stuarts and Shermans etc etc, along with the ruberised copies for the roads.

Martyn and I have both priced up sets to be cast and machined / pinned and based on enough to make a new full set you are looking at circa 4 - 9K best case scenario OUCH ! bearing in mind the rate of wear even for us using them on low hours its a big pill to swallow. there are sets about and second hand track is fairly affordable unless it is being held captive by MV pirates

the theory is that if there is enough of us to bulk buy reprowise, it gets cheaper, problem is most folks tend to try and "track" down (forgive the pun) NOS sets or second hand sets of links.

be very carefull when buying either as i have know folk try to pass off NOS sets when they were jiggered used sets, yes they had the correct amount of links, but they were all shot........

if your in Lincoln and into carriers you need to know Martyn Tasker, a great lad who is clued up on these beasts, i have no doubt you know him though

other carrier owners in the UK include, Kevin Powles (Suffolk),Shaun Hindle (suffolkish) Barry (london), Neil Ashley, Ron Pier, Nick (Yorkshire), Nigel Watson (Dundee), and Me (Newcastle) there are others but my absent mindedness strikes again... so sorry lads if i have missed you.

if you contact these folk they will keep you right on what to look out for etc, carriers do come up for sale and sometimes our brothers in Canada and Australia allow us to buy some back

finally when you do get a carrier you can paint her up in the Lincolns colours who formed part of 138bde 46th Div and were nortorious during Op Avalanche in Italy during ww2

[ajmac]

Martyn is about 5 mins away at the top of town, when this hectic week is over I'm going to give him a ring, small world!

[rob love]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

50 quid says it was Johns carrier, and a further 20 says it was Kevin that has snaffled it

According to this post.... http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...94&postcount=8
....it was Eddy Wedlock who bought the carrier from John. Did you need an address to send me that 20 quid??

[RichardT10829]

dammit ! hahahahaha i heard Kevin was on the prowl for another carrier to restore and as he has bought em from John in the past it added up i bow my head and will buy you 20 quids worth of pints if you come over here to the UK

EDIT:- my greater bet was correct so you only owe me 30 quid then har har har har

[rob love]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

dammit ! hahahahaha i heard Kevin was on the prowl for another carrier to restore and as he has bought em from John in the past it added up i bow my head and will buy you 20 quids worth of pints if you come over here to the UK

EDIT:- my greater bet was correct so you only owe me 30 quid then har har har har

Darn. I should have kept my mouth shut. Well, when you get over here, and at the rate that your British pound is plummeting, I'll likely only have to buy you a half a brew as equivelent to that 30 quid.

[eddy8men]

hi fella's
it was me that bought the carrier and it's coming to manchester when the shipping is sorted out, i've got no pics to show as yet which is why i haven't put anything on the forum but when i do i'll post them here, after which the begging and buying stage of the restoration will begin.

all the best

eddy

[RichardT10829]

use Kingstown Shipping they are excelent, they have brought some stuff back from over there for me and kevin Powles. PS i will swap you armour patterns for a lend of some of the bins out of the carrier for me to copy hehehehe


cheers

Richie

[eddy8men]

hi richie

john from midwest is already sorting out a 20 ft container for me so they'll be plenty of room for spares and when the carrier arrives i'm sure we'll get to meet up and do a few swaps, not sure what's needed for it yet though other than rad, engine and box but i will soon enough.

all the best

eddy

[RichardT10829]

Eddy.....engine top covers etc, center bulkhead peices welded back in, intake ducting, drivers front plate gunners left plate and gunners front plate (to make the hull complete) Martyn and I (plus others i am sure) are more than willing to help, you are 3 hours from me and possibly just up the road from Martyn who lives in Lincoln. i have a cad drawing for the centre bulkhead it is made from 5mm steel so can be laser cut which mine was, i would just weld in the missing slithers rather than cut it all out, i had a good look at it when it appeared on Johns site. its an excelent project and looking at the way the drivers plate was cut it should still have the numbers in, unless they have been lost through the heat of the rose bud torch that had been used to desimate it. or it is an older Mk1

welcome to the family. ps in the spirit of the thread (tracks) the tracks and sprockets looked good on yours.......

AJ, we need to find one for you now, and we will have a full carrier platoon, would be nice to get them all liveried up the same and do some shows

[ajmac]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

AJ, we need to find one for you now, and we will have a full carrier platoon, would be nice to get them all liveried up the same and do some shows

It sure would! I have Mrs ajmac on side... although she is more into a Dingo than a Carrier, however in reality it seems to me that a Carrier is going to be easier to restore and 'keep on the road' than a Dingo what with the relatively rare drive train parts and those well known tyre issues. Carriers also seem to pip Dingo to the post in terms of project availability.

[RichardT10829]

my wife says i am a divorcee if i bring anymore home.....i keep trying to find one but just cant !

[Doghouse]

Originally Posted by ajmac

Chaps,
I've been costing up for a restoration project.... which brought up a question about tracks. Does anyone know if reproduction or NOS track links and pins are available and what are the costs likely to be? On a final note does anyone know of a Mk1 for sale? I saw one on a dealer site but it has gone now.... I know who to, it is coming to the UK, not me though :-(

Hi Ajmac, wow your other half sounds great! very supportive- think we're all in similar boats/ UC's there I agree with other folks here that there's huge expense singly but maybe as a group.... similar vein discussion over on the thread regarding wheels
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14122
The idea of new track sounds great- even allowing for the heavy toll of road/ hard surface wear, if we all mostly do low mileage per year, won't a new set still last MANY years just as our current ones have?? even having a source of new track link SETS maybe might reduce the cost a little- what do you guys think?? If most of the cost is the inital mold setting up, then if we pool our resources....???
thanks again for y'all taking part in such an EXCELLENT forum!
David, a newbie from Ireland, (mk2)

[RichardT10829]

as per the other thread which is on the same lines, i would be willing to chip in with the many to have a mould made, but the problems i can potentially see are

who retains the completed mould ?

what can be put in place to prevent the mould being held to ransome by any one person or firm who want the business regardless if it could be made cheaper elsewhere ?

with these things its very much down to trust, i would be willing to take the step but there would have to be a clear published agreement of the terms and conditions to those that chip in so to speak.

[Doghouse]

I agree, but guess there's nothing we can't sort out together- where there's a will, there's a way, etc....
I might suggest if a mould were to be made, those chipping in would need to agree their "initial" order, check the supplier would be happy to proceed on the terms agreed (ie X price for Y sets of track of Z size to persons A,B,C etc) and if everyone agreed to that, then the mould cost might be moot- whether it's retained by the company, or one of the forum members but with a clear agreement anyone of the initial group can use it again- remembering of course that moulds don't last forever and I suspect can "fail" at any time.... Anyone any thoughts/ counter/better suggestions?
(there's ALWAYS better than mine )
Good discussion to be having
David

[eddy8men]

hi fella's

the track discussion has come up before and my first thought was china but there could be a problem with quality control, other than that it would have to be a local foundry and if the cost of machining was too high why not do it yourself, you'd need a pillar drill and a jig and some buggar willing to work for £30 a day for cash and you'd have your tracks in a couple of weeks (possibly). seems simple enough but then things often do until you start digging a little deeper but let's face it someone sometime is gonna have to bite the bullet and go down the new track route it's just a matter of time.

eddy

[ajmac]

We could do with merging parts of these threads together! I'll continue on this one due to the title!
I'm on to it.... when I get a good original as a pattern I'll get a quote, I've posed the question already.... watch this space. Depanding on the quote I'll consider stumping up the set-up costs and offering the track 'ready to fit', fag packet calculation shows it isn't going to be cheap as there are so many links for an entire carrier one of the reasons why no one has done it before.... perhaps. I dread to think how much the new Sherman track from Albert Steenman (sp?)

[eddy8men]

pretty sure it was £10k for a set of new sherman tracks if memory serves me right, i think £3k for the carrier would be about right but then again when there are no more tracks left you'll have no choice, so maybe better that enthusiasts get together and work something out as opposed to a dealer doing it making a living out of us.
alistair i know where there are two t16's for sale from the same guy in the midlands, i had a look at them a couple of month back, let me know if you're interested and i'll fill you in on a couple of interesting details.

all the best

eddy

[ajmac]

Originally Posted by eddy8men

better that enthusiasts get together and work something out as opposed to a dealer doing it making a living out of us

Yup - some dealers really don't do it for a love of the hobby, but lets not get into that.

[RichardT10829]

dont get me started on this guys hahahaha the lads here are probably sick of my rants about the hoarding pirates of the MV fraternity i am blown away that there are more UK members on here (carrier wise) now with our brothers over seas it takes a good day to sometimes get a reply due to the time zone differential...... i am sad and always seem to floating about on here it gets lonely on these boards sometimes

[tankbarrell]

Originally Posted by eddy8men

pretty sure it was £10k for a set of new sherman tracks if memory serves me right,

eddy

Try 25,000 Euros. Joop Staman has invested a huge sum of money to prototype and produce new Sherman tracks which include end connectors and wedgebolts. there have been problems, all of which he has had to pay for before he can sell any and there is no guarantee of how many sets he will sell. It makes carrier track look like childs play.

I doubt anyone here would do the same for the love of the hobby!

[RichardT10829]

yeah i was going to say you are looking circa 10k for carrier tracks, as Adrian has said Staman put masses of money into research and development of the track systems, mind they are absolutely fantastic ! it would be great if they could do similar for carriers with a rubber main tracklink ideal for roads.

[eddy8men]

thanks for putting me straight about the track adrian, thats what i like most about you :-

nothing

seriously though i'm not sure where i heard it was £10k, thought i saw it on his site when i was looking at sherman inst panels for one of my range wreck dreams.not that it came to anything as the panels were sold out and there's no chance of getting any armour off for a while but it never does any harm to have a plan.

eddy

[ajmac]

Originally Posted by tankbarrell

I doubt anyone here would do the same for the love of the hobby!

No, but... let me tell you a story.... that chap I mentioned with the machine shop.
He does everything he does for the Love of it and winning VSSC races, which perhaps says something about the man I guess
He had his own engine block and head pattern made, his own pistons forged and bespoke Carrillo rods, the lot... as you can imagine Adrian I go dizzy when I pop around the workshop
Anyway... his plan takes the following structure... pay up front for everything in order to beat the ERAs (Drity cheating Bas*ards, he would say) all the R&D is for his own car. Meanwhile let all the fraternity know what you are doing and start clocking up orders for unobtainable spares which you are having remanufactured for your engine. When you take delivery of your cylinderhead castings (for example), you don't just get two for your car but ten, eight to sell. He has got to a break point now where he is making money had over fist because he is able to manufacture ANY part for the Riley engine.

The above was just for interest - as normal I do agree with you Adrian!

[tankbarrell]

Originally Posted by eddy8men

thanks for putting me straight about the track adrian, thats what i like most about you :-

nothing

seriously though i'm not sure where i heard it was £10k, thought i saw it on his site when i was looking at sherman inst panels for one of my range wreck dreams.not that it came to anything as the panels were sold out and there's no chance of getting any armour off for a while but it never does any harm to have a plan.

eddy

It's ok Eddy, it's one of my many redeeming features......

[tankbarrell]

Originally Posted by ajmac

No, but... let me tell you a story.... that chap I mentioned with the machine shop.
He does everything he does for the Love of it and winning VSSC races, which perhaps says something about the man I guess
He has got to a break point now where he is making money had over fist

So not just for the love of it then!

Seriously though, he sounds like a great guy, without his efforts, many people would probably not have their cars running.

[Blackpowder44 (RIP)]

A friend of mine has a WWII Jap tank which he is having restored in Poland. The Poles are having a new set of tracks made for it, maybe worth looking in that direction. I can find out the email of the restorers if anyone is interested. John.

[motto]

For the TV series 'The Pacific' which was mostly shot in Australia, three Japanese light tanks were built from the ground up. The tracks were made up of links cast off an original borrowed from the AWM Canberra. The word on set had it that the tracks alone cost $120,000 Australian for the three vehicles or $40,000 a set. At that time about 20,000 GBP.
One interesting detail is that the holes for the pins were miss- drilled by the machine shop so that when the track was assembled it was curved. The fix used was to assemble the track using under size pins allowing the track to run straight when installed over the wheels. The vehicles were a little bit prone to throwing them.
Keep an eye on the quality. It's difficult enough at home let alone, as mentioned earlier, in China.
David

[eddy8men]

hi fella's
just had a thought about the track problem not sure if it's do-able but i'm assuming the problem with old track is the pins get worn and the holes get elongated would it not sound viable to drill the links out to a larger diameter and fit new pins to suite.let me know what you think, there's some new old stock track on ebay for £3k and an axle for £1.5k which is about double what i'd expect to pay but then if you're the only guy in town with new track then you can charge what you want.
i met a great guy on saturday, a carrier owner with loads of track in his shed just goes to show it's still out there !

eddy

[Jordan Baker]

Ive been reading all these postings over the past little while and don't want to rain on anyones parade. However this has all been discoused a few times over a couple of years ago. The end result is price and figuring out the metalurgy. The design of the original track was for it to wear out and the holes became elongated. once youve removed so many links from the track it ment that the whole track is now garbage. Simply drilling out the track to fit a sleeve or new pin wont work as it will change the distance for fitting a sprocket.

Now don't get me wrong, I too would love to have proper new made tracks for my carrier. However its the flipping cost of them to be made that is so prohibitive. Also, say i find a place here to make then. At 1000 lbs for a set are you going to also now pay for shipping.