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  #1  
Old 05-05-05, 21:38
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
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Default Kangaroo cap badge on eBay

See CANADA! Genuine WWII 'Kangaroo' cap badge. SCARCE!.
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  #2  
Old 12-05-05, 23:26
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Default Re: Kangaroo cap badge on eBay

It sold for US $125.00. I sure hope for the buyer it is genuine. Here´s what the seller had to say:
Quote:
One of the great rarities of the WWII cap badge series. A genuine cap badge to the ‘Kangaroos’, the 1st Canadian Armoured Personnel Carrier Regiment (CB.46, Mazeas C.57). I receive more enquiries regarding this and the cap badges of the Canadian Parachute Corps than any others re-strikes of both being common. Although only ever a small unit, in existence for a short period of time two different dies were used to strike the cap badges of the ‘Kangaroos’. Badges have been widely re-struck from one of these dies, (Die 2) but not from the other (Die 1)all of which are genuine WWII issues. This example is a genuine WWII (Die 2) cap badge. The most obvious difference between original specimens and re-strikes is the metal. WWII badges are struck from yellow brass, the re-strikes from reddish hued gilding metal, this is very soft and the badges can be easily bent with simple finger pressure, genuine brass badges do not bend. The regiment was formed October 24th 1944 (die 2 badges). After a number of successful trials of armoured personnel carriers made from converted tanks in the aftermath of D’Day a Squadron of ‘Kangaroos’ was formed on August 28th 1944 (die 1 badges).
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  #3  
Old 08-06-05, 18:58
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Default Another Kangaroo Cap Badge On E-Bay

Here is another cap badge for sale.

No it is not one of mine.

E-Bay Item number: 6537570455
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  #4  
Old 08-06-05, 21:25
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Default kangaroos!

Hey Jason,

I see a lot of kangaroo stuff is coming out of the woodwork lately, I think the price tag on this type of badge is a little high. Your stuff however is priceless! I was really blown away with the volume of material and condition your grandfather saved. We should get together again soon.

My Dad really liked the 157 Tac Sign and the CD (when I get a chance I am going to transcribe it so it can be more clearly understood in spots). He has the Tac sign in the rear window of his Plymouth... that combined with his Vet license plate has attracted the attention of a few other Vets in his town. Who knows, you could maybe make a few bucks selling other signs for other regiments?

I was wondering if I could get a copy of the photo showing your Grandfather in the FGH parade? It shows a few other 'roo badges in the columns... still trying to track down as many faces and names as possible...

Anyway, Dad and I got back from the Netherlands May 12th, with a little detour through Ottawa and the new CWM. Had a great time... really an emotional trip for both of us.

I just actually logged in for the first time in several months (usually just lurking)
Sorry I didn't respond to your PM from back in April!! I log in so infrequently that I never even noticed the feature!

Later,
Bill


Left to right:
Trooper Art Bell (HQ Sqn)
Trooper Ed Sawchuk (B Sqn)
Trooper Bill Miller,Sr. (A Sqn)

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  #5  
Old 17-06-05, 13:19
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Default Re: Another Kangaroo Cap Badge On E-Bay

Quote:
Description
This is a nice Badge from The first Canadian Armoured Personnel Carrier Regiment Badge, badge is in exxelent condition both lugs are in place. This badge measures 2 in. X 1-1/2 in.
item sold for US $105.00 to floydw2004

Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Miller
I just actually logged in for the first time in several months (usually just lurking)
Nice to see you back, Bill!
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  #6  
Old 18-06-05, 12:17
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Default Another restrike / copy

The badge shown appears to be another example of the repro / restrike badge. Note the "O" vs "0" and the tufts of grass with the semi-circular pattern.
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  #7  
Old 26-06-05, 14:35
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FYI: 1 Canadian Armoured Carrier Regiment Cap Badge Item number: 6542231901
Quote:
This cap badge of the 1 CACR is possibly a reproduction. I've had it several years and it is as you see it. The lugs are intact.
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  #8  
Old 26-06-05, 22:33
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A repro methinks, compared to my own original. Damned good one though.
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  #9  
Old 27-06-05, 01:58
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Geoff

Could you put up a pic of yours in this thread for comparison purposes, please.

regards
D
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  #10  
Old 27-06-05, 02:08
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darrell Zinck
Geoff

Could you put up a pic of yours in this thread for comparison purposes, please.

regards
D
Hi Darrell,

Sunray says sorry, but the scanner is broken so no can do at the moment, but the "O" is too wide, the tail too thick, and there's not enough detail in the grass underneath it, compared to his original (that he has on hand right here )

Sunburnt and mosquito bitten Ma speaks on behalf of Sunray hisself, who is currently busy watching a video for trying to prove Captain Skagfeld a liar in regards STANLEY BAKER
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  #11  
Old 27-06-05, 04:49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vets Dottir
on hand right here )

Sunburnt and mosquito bitten Ma speaks on behalf of Sunray hisself, who is currently busy watching a video for trying to prove Captain Skagfeld a liar in regards STANLEY BAKER
Darrell (how the hell did you get that spelling anyway?), struth ref the scanner.

Jon, I hate you, but at least I left you a good stiff shot of rye. Don't waste it.
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  #12  
Old 27-06-05, 13:15
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Karmen

Thanks for the reply. I will note the described differences for my own reference. If the scanner returns to life, I'd still appreciate a pic. You must make a pretty penny as Geoff's Aide De Campe.

Geoff

Darrell is Darrell where the family comes from (South Shore NS) and all other spellings are looked at in an odd way!!

Thanx again

regards
D
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  #13  
Old 27-06-05, 16:17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darrell Zinck
Karmen

Thanks for the reply. I will note the described differences for my own reference. If the scanner returns to life, I'd still appreciate a pic. You must make a pretty penny as Geoff's Aide De Campe.
regards
D
I TRY to be a good little helper ... and have my frying pan should the demands become unreasonable
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  #14  
Old 27-06-05, 17:02
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Darrell Zinck
...I will note the described differences for my own reference. If the scanner returns to life, I'd still appreciate a pic.
Will do my best, but some of the repros are so good that you have to look at them closely in comparison with an original! If Bill Miller's out there, he has a good shot of both together... but the key to start is looking at the "O" - if it's perfectly round, it's a repro. The other more subtle details just confirm it. Some repros are better than others, though, and most of the reputable dealers will state up front that they're not sure, if there's any question as to validity.
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  #15  
Old 28-06-05, 12:15
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Default Chris Brooker

The vendor of this lot is a long time dealer in Canadian militaria, Chris Brooker. He is out of the Washington State area in the US, formerly from London Ontario. The description is the first time I have heard these reasons for the differences in the two patterns of the cap badge. Personally, I would prefer the pattern with the narrow "0" and proper detail in the grass, etc etc.
One would never be able to determine which "O" badge was wartime versus post war restrike. At $125, for a badge, that many will dispute is original, I would pass.
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  #16  
Old 03-07-05, 23:39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
FYI: 1 Canadian Armoured Carrier Regiment Cap Badge Item number: 6542231901
Item did not sell, watch out for it hitting eBay again.
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  #17  
Old 08-07-05, 22:49
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Default kangaroo badge types

Sorry for not jumping on this sooner, but I was on vacation in B.C. the past few weeks.
I will attach a picture showing the badge types side by side, hopefully that helps. It is hard to tell the difference if you don't have the other type to compare to.

Despite, Chris Brooker's claims about the 2nd Die Variety, I only believe that the type 1 badges are Wartime issue. Type 1 comes in a bronze officer's pattern (RARE) and the all rank's Brass (Scarce). Type 2 comes in two metals; A very "yellow" brass (Scarce), and a red/orange gilding metal variety (Common as dirt).
Gilding metal is a type of jeweller's brass with a high copper content that makes it more maliable.

There is a way to tell the difference between the brass and gilding metal type 2's. They have different lugs. The Brass type 2 has lugs identical to the original issue. The brass type are very stiff and could not be easily bent despite the fact that they are actually thinner (they look kind of flimsy) the gilding metal are a relatively "thick" stamping but can be very easily bent or even snapped in half if you so desire!

Where or when the Type 2 badges were manufactured is a mystery? Because the Brass type 2's are very similar in construction to the Type 1's (Brass/same lugs) it would be easy to surmise they are of the same time frame. However I can't see why two different dies would be created? The Type 1 "original" badges were only manufactured and distributed between January and May of 1945. maybe only 1500 were made at most (that would be 3 per man!My Dad only was issued a single badge.) that is not enough to wear out a die? Even if the die wore out and you needed a new one, why would there be a different engraving? The only badges I have seen in veteran collections are Type 1. Jason Spurrier's Grandfather had 4 of them! And even though he attended at least one large reunion, there were no repro's among his belonging's.

I doubt will ever really know where the repro's came from. Beyond these type's I also have various brass and plastic cast badges of both die varieties, these however are obvious fakes.

Bill.
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  #18  
Old 09-07-05, 02:28
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Default

Poi-fect, Bill.

Thank you very much.

regards
Darrell
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  #19  
Old 12-07-05, 00:47
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Default Re: kangaroo badge types

Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Miller
I will attach a picture showing the badge types side by side, hopefully that helps.
It does, Bill - thanks!

H.
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  #20  
Old 12-07-05, 00:50
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Default

Here´s one to scrutinize with Bill´s descriptions: 1ST CANADIAN ARMOURED PERSONNEL CARRIER REGT CAP BADGE Item number: 6191832277
Quote:
OFTEN SEE LISTED ON EBAY AS UNKNOWN AUSTRALIAN CAP BADGE, THIS IS IN FACT THE CAP BADGE OF THE 1ST CANDADIAN ARMOURED PERSONNEL CARRIER REGIMENT. THE UNIT WAS FORMED IN HOLLAND IN OCTOBER 1944 AND WERE EQUIPPED WITH CONVERTED RAM TANKS, THESE CONVERSIONS WERE CALLED ..KANGEROOS.. HENCE THE BADGE.

THE UNIT SERVED IN THE 79TH ARMOURED DIV { HOBARTS...FUNNIES... } ONE OF THESE TANKS IS ON DISPLAY AT THE TANK MUSEUM IN BOVINGTON, ITS LIKE A SHERMAN WITHOUT A TURET.

THIS BADGE IS AN ORIGINAL
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  #21  
Old 12-07-05, 01:37
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I played with the pic a bit... looks like a fake to me.
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  #22  
Old 12-07-05, 06:10
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Default Kangaroo Parade

Hanno, you make it too easy...

Will the real 1CACR badge(s) please stand up!

Bill
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  #23  
Old 12-07-05, 11:39
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Default OK I'll bite.

OK, I will see if I have this right. The authentic badge is the second badge from the left on the bottom row.
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  #24  
Old 12-07-05, 14:47
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Default The ORIGINAL Badge

The ORIGINAL badge showed the Kangaroo with three babies in it's pouch. Also, it did not have the latin logo but rather the name of the unit. This was in a drawing supplied by Gaunt's of London. CMHQ instructed the regiment to lose the babies and to use the Latin motto. No actual examples were ever made of this but I thought that I would throw in my tuppence worth 'just to muddy the waters'
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  #25  
Old 12-07-05, 18:17
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Default A Hint

In the picture I posted there are 4 wartime badges, but not neccessarily worn during the war....

Bill.
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  #26  
Old 12-07-05, 19:17
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Default Sgt's badge

Bill,
I assume that the middle badge is an officer's collar badge worn with Service Dress? Do you know if the CACR ever received a 3/4 size badge to be worn by Sergeants on their stripes? This was a common practice with many armoured units, i.e. Fort garry GHorse, and others.
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  #27  
Old 12-07-05, 19:39
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Post Re: The ORIGINAL Badge #1

Quote:
Originally posted by servicepub
The ORIGINAL badge showed the Kangaroo with three babies in it's pouch. Also, it did not have the latin logo but rather the name of the unit. This was in a drawing supplied by Gaunt's of London. CMHQ instructed the regiment to lose the babies and to use the Latin motto. No actual examples were ever made of this but I thought that I would throw in my tuppence worth 'just to muddy the waters'
Clive's post prompted me to post this:

The J.R. Gaunt & Son Ltd. sketch of the cap badge which Clive mentions above:
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  #28  
Old 12-07-05, 19:43
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Post Re: The ORIGINAL Badge #2

From the letter by the Commanding Officer, addressed to the BRAC, Main HQ, First Cdn Army:

The three paragraphs from Lt-Col Churchill's letter of 16 Nov 44 pertaining to the cap badge.
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  #29  
Old 12-07-05, 19:46
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Post Re: The ORIGINAL Badge #3

Part of the memo (dated 20 Nov 44) from DA & QMG to the BRAC, regarding the cap badge:
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  #30  
Old 12-07-05, 19:49
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Post Re: The ORIGINAL Badge #4

The letter (dated 21 Nov 44) that Lt-Col. Churchill received from the BRAC, informing him of what was approved and what was to be amended:
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