CFTO on wirecutters for M38A1 CDN 2+3/M151A2

derk derin · #1 09-05-10, 06:26

Here are the plans and installation instructions on the wirecutters for the Recce vehicles for anyone good with a hacksaw,drill and welder!

Derk.

maple_leaf_eh · #2 10-05-10, 02:38

I have a healthy respect for those 45-deg cutters. My scalp has a dent courtesy of a moment of carelessness.

As I recall, there were reasons for moving them along the width of the bumper and not just centred - underhood access, sightlines, GPMG clearance ... .

oldlithgow · #3 10-05-10, 06:40

I was just going to build one from photos but this CFTO is the ticket, Thanks.

BOBM35A2 · #4 10-05-10, 16:17

Thanks Derk,
I think I found another project.
Bob M.

charlie fitton · #5 10-05-10, 22:12

this is the stuff I think the site is best for.

derk derin · #6 11-05-10, 08:18

Glad people can use the information.As I recall,my wirecutter on my M38A1 CDN 2 jeep left me with a wound or at least a ripped shirt at one time! A fairly simple project that adds to the vehicle.Be careful!
Derk.

BOBM35A2 · #7 13-05-10, 00:05

Derk,
After seeing the diagrams, I went down to the shop and started making the parts. Cut the plates and drilled them. Cut the short peices and put an angle to the blade. But, do to the warnings, stopped short of making them knife edge. But, I put the project on hold, I didn't have the exact angle iron, so I had to stop. Repainted the bumpers today, to get the wrong CFR numbers off. Replaced the transfer case rear seal and took the slop out of the parking brake. Cutter should be ready by the weekend. The info is very helpful.
Thanks,
Bob M.

BOBM35A2 · #8 16-05-10, 02:58

Derk,
Thanks for another project. Installed the wire cutter and the new correct numbers today.
Radio parts on the way. Anything else I should know? Did the Olive Drab jeeps have Canadian flag red and white decals on them? Where if so. I've seen them on the front bumper, hood cowles, front fender, rear bumper. Was this radom?
Attached is up to date picture.

derk derin · #9 16-05-10, 07:37

Hi Bob,
Jeep looks good.Nice job on the wirecutter.I was looking at pictures of my M38A1 CDN 2 when I brought it home and it was camoflouged already and had no markings other than the CFR number stencilled on the dash and that was it.More than likely it's last paint job left it bare of markings as nobody restencilled anything on the outside where unit markings are usually present.
My 5/4 ton had a camoflouged paint job and had a red maple leaf and unit tach sign on the hood and rear bumper as well as a call sign on the doors and a bridge class number on the front bumper so I would imagine the jeeps would also have these markings on them.Maybe somebody else can add to the markings their jeeps had after service with the Canadian army.
Do you plan on adding anything else to the jeep like a radio set,decontamination cannister,Sterling SMG bracket,FN rifle mounts,Fire extinguisher,etc.I will see what other CFTO's I have you can use for your jeep! We don't want our projects to come to an end do we?
Derk.

rob love · #10 16-05-10, 13:53

The reason for the differences on markings, say, between a 5/4 ton and an M38A1, is who was using them. The 5/4 tons were primarily a regular force truck, and as such would be subject to such niceties as the occasional GOCs inspections, or the annual ATI inspections, where such markings were generally "by the book". The book, by the way, was the Force Mobile Command orders (FMCOs) or else the applicable brigade directives.

The M38A1s were primarily a reserve truck once the M151A2s came out, although many served with regular force units as well. Markings in reserve units(as well as cam jobs) were pretty hit or miss. ATIs in reserve units were also of a different standard from a regular force ATI, and the ATI team was happy if the vehicles had their batteries in them, besides such niceties as unit markings.

If I may comment on Bob's jeep, the single color flat paint was by and large non-existent during the M38A1Cdn2 era. FMCOs during that time period called for the Cdn 3 color cam, and it was usually liberally applied annually with a 3 inch brush. It wasn't until the 90s that the multi color cam paint was dropped on B vehicles in favor of the single flat color. Also, the CFRs under the door were on the jeeps in their original semi gloss paint. Of the one or two jeeps I saw in service which had not been cammed up, the CFRs were no longer in that position once the vehicles received another coat of semi gloss. The CFR would have been on the license plate and as well in white numbers on the dash. The Canada flags should have been on the front and rear. Normally, there was a decal for these in red and white, but many units would cut them out of stencils and apply them in black. It wasn't in any manual, but it was just done so that you would have one less thing to duct tape over before you went to the field.

Other markings like the unit tac sign and the call sign were also more of a regular force thing, although the militia should have been using them as well. Call signs were not generally painted on reserve unit vehicles because the net would have been designed based on what vehicles were serviceable and who showed up for an ex. Often, the call signs were just applied with chalk the day of an ex. On a regular force vehicle the call signs would be on both sides of the vehicle near the cowl. Another sign that was to be on vehicles was the bridge class. They should have been a yellow circle with the max weight in tons painted in the circle. They could also have the combined weight of the truck and trailer. Jeeps were below the necessary weight rating to have a bridge class painted on them, although often they were done anyway. As well, the bridge class was normally found on regular force vehicles, and rarely on reserve force vehicles.

Even the tire pressure markings were more often found on reg force vehicles than reserve vehicles. These markings were also called for in the FMCOs but often was not done.

BOBM35A2 · #11 16-05-10, 18:50

Derk,
Thanks about the nice words on the jeep. The whole jeep and project came into my hands unexpectedly. The jeep came to me with an offer I couldn't refuse. Since it is the only canadian jeep I ever ran across, I started to check out pictures and info on the jeep. For 12 months I gathered pictures and very little info. I knew the jeep was not correct in markings and paint and though at least at one time had more equipment on it. Due to several holes and welded up holes. In comes the Maple Leaf Up forum. I recieved more help than I could have wished for. I'm very appreciative to help and kind words. The jeep is suppose to be a very low budget project, since it was purchased just before I was scheduled to start my M151A1 restoration. The jeep and I are still having a difference of opinion when we hit a certain bump.
Since then 95% of the suspension has been replaced. The last 5 % will be the problem solver. I didn't want to paint the whole jeep and after just selling my 3 color Duece and a half, I liked the whole green thing.
Thanks to the forum I got good info that varified my the correct CFR # and gave me a history on the jeep. ( Thanks Craig) I concentrated on the equipment of what it had and what it should have, avoiding the color and marking issues. So now as it stands it has the MG mount ( Thanks Brian)with 1919A4 (308), Rifle holder with FNFAL, SMG holder with SMG, wire cutter
(Thanks Derk), and radio parts coming in for the radio to be mounted. Color and markings. I still have several conflicting stories, which I know doesn't mean the stories are wrong. Even more confusing is comparing the info and the photos which I have retrieved. Knowing the different commanders often order different instructions to their units, well the boss is always right. I have found a picture of a jeep like mine painted all green and the white number on the side is about 26 digits below mine. It was a military picture. I was told if the jeep was green it had a red and white flag on the cowle and didn't have black ones until it went camoflauge. Insignia's on fenders, not on fenders. Well that is where I am on the colors and markings. Nomans land. So I thought I play it safe with the green and the white CFR numbers on the dash and doors.
I waiting for someone to tell me to paint over the black flags on the fenders. I already painted over the white numbers on the bumpers and the hood.
I guess I would like some info on markings concerning the BCR Armoured Reccee. The jeep also has a gas can in holder on the driver's side front fender. When I removed the gas can the jeep had a stencil on the jeep behind the gas can that said "WATER". Any help on that. Still looking for help and appreciate what I get.
Bob M.

BOBM35A2 · #12 16-05-10, 18:57

Rob Love,
So do you think it would be possible to have the black flags on my jeep? More plausable to remove the white Tire Pressure marking on it?
Bob M.

rob love · #13 16-05-10, 19:23

The black flags were more common in the later years than the red and white ones although any official orders I have viewed called for the red and whites. I ordered in a bunch of the decals back in the 90s and was going to apply them to the M35 I was issued and was told by my MWO not to. So although they were in the brigade orders, they were not really accepted.

The tire pressures were more commonly in black, but could just as easily be in white as well. If they were painted over an area that was cammed up in black, then they were usually painted green.

Re the markings of the BCRs, they would have been along the same lines as the rest of the armoured recce. If you are talking about the period after the early 70s, the jeep would have been in 3 color cam (with multi coats of paint liberally applied by brush), had the light recce tac signs front and rear, likely on the front fender and the back bumperette, and likely the letters BCR stencilled on the front and back.

A good source for this information would be to get a hold of the unit itself. (email history@bcregiment.com)They often have a museum or an archive of photos which could give you what you seek. Try and look at several photos of various vehicles for an average rather than taking one vehicle as gospel . Paint and markings were done locally and often varied greatly, even between two vehicles side by side.

derk derin · #14 18-05-10, 07:43

Hi Bob,
I have made a new thread on the M38A1 CDN2 giving the description of the jeep as well as for the M100 trailer if you wind up finding one and adding it to the jeep!
I have also included the camoflouge paint pattern for both in case one day you might want the camo paint job.
Derk.

derk derin · #15 18-05-10, 08:15

Bob,
I have come across one of the vehicle stickers.The dimensions are 3 inches high x 6 inches long.You can either make stickers from this image or make a stencil and paint it on.

Derk.