Info needed: Re-silvering Headlamp Reflectors

[Owen Evans]

The headlamps on my Cab 11 Chev are in decent shape, but the reflectors could do with re-silvering. Have any UK based members had this done, and who would you recommend?

I've tried the cheap method of chrome spray paint in the past, but with no success.

Thanks,
Owen.

[Lynn Eades]

I have bought reflectors from Macs auto. I didn't use them. They were chromed.
About 10 years ago an electro plating business re silvered some reflectors for me. They were excellent.
You should be able to find someone to do it.

[Grant Bowker]

I've never tried it but at least in the USA there are kits available https://angelgilding.com/ to silver glass, plastic and if I understand their videos almost anything else with an undercoat. I've no idea how the chemicals used would react to steel base of the reflector. I understood them to be able to silver either the traditional back face of glass (useful for redoing CMP mirrors) or the front face of opaque substrates (what I'm thinking of for reflectors). They also mention coating to avoid tarnishing. I don't know if the originals were coated but assume they must have been or they'd all be black by now. The company referenced does mention international air shipment as being possible but I assume there must be local sources with reduced hassle.

[Ian Fawbert]

A long story short, I had the mirror/reflectors replated in my late grandmothers car's headlights because new ones were too expensive- it was a 1981 car.

Somehow, it was recommended to contact a company in Brisbane Australia. They plated pieces for the funeral industry- all the bits which go on th casket etc. Hyqual is their name. https://www.hyqual.com/home

Anyway, a phone call later, they were packed up and send off. They came back and are WONDERFUL!!! This was approx 10 years ago and they are still excellent, shiny and throw a decent coloured light.

I intended (great plans he has....) to send the reflectors up from my jeep headlights to them, but haven't gotten around to it. Oddly i was only thinking about this today that I should dig them out and send up!

I assume there would be a similar plating place in the UK you could send them to? Just a thought and hope it helps.

Cheers,
Ian.

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

I have bought reflectors from Macs auto. I didn't use them. They were chromed.

Hmmm. How did the reflectors from Macs compare to the CMP ones? Would you able to check against the attached photos?

Thanks,
Owen.

[Mike Gurr]

Owen,
A couple of weeks ago at the Beaulieu Autojumble I spoke to a chap called Keith Ardley who runs a reflector re-silvering service. I have his card, he charges £5 per 1" measured across the diameter of any brass reflector (this is what is written on his card) his contact details - 14 bridge Road, Mepal Ely, Cambridgeshire, CB6 2AR Tel 01353 778493 email keithardley7@gmail.com
I have no connection with this service but what he had displayed on his stall looked very good. Though he does not do it himself he can also get mirror glass re-silvered for about £25 each.

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Mike Gurr

Owen,
A couple of weeks ago at the Beaulieu Autojumble I spoke to a chap called Keith Ardley who runs a reflector re-silvering service. I have his card, he charges £5 per 1" measured across the diameter of any brass reflector (this is what is written on his card) his contact details - 14 bridge Road, Mepal Ely, Cambridgeshire, CB6 2AR Tel 01353 778493 email keithardley7@gmail.com
I have no connection with this service but what he had displayed on his stall looked very good. Though he does not do it himself he can also get mirror glass re-silvered for about £25 each.

Thanks for that Mike.
I'll drop Keith an email..

Owen.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Owen Evans

Hmmm. How did the reflectors from Macs compare to the CMP ones? Would you able to check against the attached photos?

Thanks,
Owen.

Hi Owen,

Think I may have mentioned this before in another post but Ford CMP reflectors are unique to these vehicles according to the asterisk in front of the part number *C01Q 13011 A or *C01Q 13011 B.

I looked into Macs and Dennis Carpenters reflectors for civilian vehicles a while ago and one difference I noted was the lack of the 3 spring steel clips to hold the headlight lens. There could be other differences.

Cheers,

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Owen, mine were made (marketed?) by Vintique.
Anyhow, they are an inch bigger that yours. These fit the Ford commercial "Twolite" headlights (as per Ford buses and cab overs, 1935-40) (and Australian LP1 Carriers)
Basically the reflector (steel pressing) is first brass plated and then silver plated.
It comes down to what the annode is, as to what the plating is. I was dissapointed as it was not stated what the finish was and I doubt the reflective ability is anywhere as good as a silvered finish. Add to that how useless these lights were from new, and really it's a con job, in my opinion. There is a reason why they were silvered.
I guess if you are rolling out a vintage car for a daytime show it doesn't matter. When you pay freight from USA to N.Z. and it is much more that what the item costs to buy, then you put the item on a shelf and look for your best original, and put it down to experience.
Anyhow, get yours re-silvered. It's worth it!

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

I looked into Macs and Dennis Carpenters reflectors for civilian vehicles a while ago and one difference I noted was the lack of the 3 spring steel clips to hold the headlight lens. There could be other differences.

Thanks Jacques. I was pretty certain it wouldn't be straightforward, and there would be some differences.

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Basically the reflector (steel pressing) is first brass plated and then silver plated.
It comes down to what the annode is, as to what the plating is. I was dissapointed as it was not stated what the finish was and I doubt the reflective ability is anywhere as good as a silvered finish. Add to that how useless these lights were from new, and really it's a con job, in my opinion. There is a reason why they were silvered.
I guess if you are rolling out a vintage car for a daytime show it doesn't matter. When you pay freight from USA to N.Z. and it is much more that what the item costs to buy, then you put the item on a shelf and look for your best original, and put it down to experience.
Anyhow, get yours re-silvered. It's worth it!

Good point. I'll let folks know how I get on with the re-silvering...

Thanks,
Owen.

[Lynn Eades]

BTW, Macs sell the cork seal strip that goes in the rim of the reflector. The glass sits against it. That was good.

[Bob Carriere]

In manufacturing regular mirrors the silvering is done on the back side them it it coated (shellack?) to prevent tarnishing. In old antique mirrors the coating starts to deteriorate near the edges.

In fancy optical mirrors the silvering is done to the top surface, so as not to have any distortion from the glass thickness..... these require constant special handling ....again some form of sealer must be applied to prevent tarnishing.

In the cab 11 Chev/Ford headlights and also the 1942/46 Chev headlights the reflector is tarnished silver on the inside and brass "looking" on the back side.

Mac's old catalogue makes mention of plating but do not indicate silver plating or chrome finish.

In any event, where the original 1940 era reflectors plated or "silvered"????

The chemicals for silvering are rather nasty BUT would it be possible to replate them in silver....???? what solution would be required? any lest nasty than "silvering"...... Once plated would the reflectors need extensive polishing with a variety of jewelry compounds on a buffer wheel(s)..... and then sealed??

Since I have a number of tarnished reflectors it sounds like a nice Winter project ..........

I will recruit Grant on the search for the necessary chemicals for silver plating...... plastic tank, DC current and voila!!!!! there goes the family silverware for anodes!!!! or is it cathode?

AS a point of interest, years ago, I purchased a complete cab 11 headlight with the hooded steel lens cover...... when I took it apart I discovered that that bottom half of the reflector had been " hurriedly" painted with flat black paint......so only the top half of the reflector actually pushed light out directly under the external hood.

Comments / suggestions welcomed.


PS<<<<<first road block...plating solution is potassium cyanide...... and improperly used can generate cyanide gas!!!! not a basement project........
..............>>>>>>> still exploring other less lethal solutions ........

[Lynn Eades]

That sounds like a solid road block Bob.

BTW, They were silvered. Check an old one.

[Bob Carriere]

....and chrome "anything" as become a four letter word...... nickel????


Not giving up yet......Grant has found some info I need to read up on.....

We have used strong lye solutions in 45 gallons plastic drums to derust axles with a bunch of DC batteries and chargers...... it works extremely well..... out in the open and not in the house basement...... and we live in a rural area.

Not giving up yet...... the web is a wonderful place to surf on cool evenings.

[Lynn Eades]

....and chrome "anything" as become a four letter word...... nickel????
And lets not forget hydrogen embrittlement........

[Owen Evans]

Has anyone tried this stuff?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-UNUR7NXk

Looks like it may work, but not sure about long term? Think it's probably better to pay out and get it done properly. Besides, my parents told me never to trust a man in a purple shirt!

Owen.

[Tony Smith]

I have a General Electric Carbon-Arc searchlight and the reflector dish is Rhodium plated. There are a few spatter spots from burning carbon rods and I have looked into getting it re-plated, but apparently Rhodium is a rare metal these days worth about 5 times the price of gold.

I found that Auto-Sol aluminium polish does a good job in the meantime to bring up a brilliant reflective surface.

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Tony, in case you are planning to buy a lump of it, here is a snippet of an African mining report and a bit on safety.
it appears to have peaked at over 10 grand U.S. and immediately crashed back 90% about 5 years ago. With a big reflector your options are bound to be fewer. Go the Autosol!
The price of rhodium is up 272% since August 2016 with the platinum group metal hitting an eight year high last week.

Like its sister metals, rhodium's main application is to clean vehicle emissions and the price quoted by Johnson Matthey, the world's number one manufacturer of autocatalysts, reached $2,350 an ounce on Friday.

Recent announcement of production curtailment by Impala and Lonmin can only partially explain the huge upswing
Due to rarity, the small size of the market and concentrated supply – South Africa alone produces roughly 80% of the world's rhodium – prices are typically volatile.

Health effects of rhodium. Rhodium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. There are almost no reported cases of human being affected by this element in any way. All rhodium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic.

Back to the thread. Sorry Owen.

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Hi Tony, in case you are planning to buy a lump of it, here is a snippet of an African mining report and a bit on safety.
it appears to have peaked at over 10 grand U.S. and immediately crashed back 90% about 5 years ago. With a big reflector your options are bound to be fewer. Go the Autosol!
The price of rhodium is up 272% since August 2016 with the platinum group metal hitting an eight year high last week.

Like its sister metals, rhodium's main application is to clean vehicle emissions and the price quoted by Johnson Matthey, the world's number one manufacturer of autocatalysts, reached $2,350 an ounce on Friday.

Recent announcement of production curtailment by Impala and Lonmin can only partially explain the huge upswing
Due to rarity, the small size of the market and concentrated supply – South Africa alone produces roughly 80% of the world's rhodium – prices are typically volatile.

Health effects of rhodium. Rhodium compounds are encountered relatively rarely by most people. There are almost no reported cases of human being affected by this element in any way. All rhodium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic.

Back to the thread. Sorry Owen.

No problem at all; I enjoyed the lesson.
Rhodium isn't on my shopping list. Thankfully.

Owen.

[jeepfinger]

Hi Owen,

Have you managed to get your reflectors done yet? I had my motor bike reflector done a few years ago, sadly not on the bike yet. A chap on the WD BSA forum called Ian Wright got it done for me.

Owen, I think that we have met a few years ago. It was at Elvington, would I be right, that you where a Jerry then?

Dave

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by jeepfinger

Have you managed to get your reflectors done yet? I had my motor bike reflector done a few years ago, sadly not on the bike yet. A chap on the WD BSA forum called Ian Wright got it done for me.

Hi Dave,
I sent them off to Keith Ardley (details kindly provided by Mike Gurr) a few weeks ago, with a 3-week turnaround. So I should be getting them back maybe next week.

Originally Posted by jeepfinger

Owen, I think that we have met a few years ago. It was at Elvington, would I be right, that you where a Jerry then?

Hmmm. I did go through a 'jerry phase' a few years ago when I was young and daft; now I'm older but sadly no wiser! I used to go to the MVT show at Elvington every year. A shame it's not still on; a very nice setting, particularly having the museum there too.

P.S. For those that haven't been to Elvington museum before (http://yorkshireairmuseum.org), a few pictures of some of the exhibits....

Owen.

[jeepfinger]

Hi Owen,

That's good news on the reflectors.

Is this a picture of you? It's who I thought you where.

Dave

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by jeepfinger

Hi Owen,

Is this a picture of you? It's who I thought you where.

Dave

No, sorry Dave, that must be another ex-jerry called Owen. But, if the Kettenkrad in the photo is looking for an owner called Owen, I'm sure I can provide it with a good home!
Cheers,
Owen.

[Owen Evans]

The Royal Mail chap dropped these off today. To say I'm rather chuffed would be an understatement. Thanks to Mr. Mike Gurr for kindly providing Keith Ardley's contact details.

P.S. I have now discovered that newly resilvered reflectors are almost impossible to photograph, so apologies for the crappy pictures...

Cheers,
Owen.

[Grant Bowker]

They do look good. And you managed to remain incognito as well.... no face in the reflector to let us see who you are.

[Mike Gurr]

Glad it worked out for you. I am always a little nervous circulating details of someone I haven't used myself but what I saw of his work looked very good.

[Lynn Eades]

Great decision Owen.
Now that you have 'em, I guess you've been told to keep your fingers off 'em?
They look fantastic!