Where to find CMPs?

Marauder_Pilot · #1 17-12-10, 01:12

I've been on the lookout for a CMP truck to restore (Well, more realistically, resto-mod), but, unfortunately, they're damn hard to find, in any condition!

I've checked eBay, Kijiji and a handful of MV websites looking for them, and the few that do come up are always long gone by the time I see them.

I'm new to the MV community, so are there any other places I should be looking? (Besides scouring Canada's barns personally?)

rob love · #2 17-12-10, 01:25

Keep an eye on this site. There have been more than a few that sat on the sale forum for a while yet at reasonable prices.

There is also one for sale in Winnipeg right now. It was on ebay at $10,500, but I don't believe it sold. Buyer may take a reasonable offer. All the mechanical and restoration is already done.

chris vickery · #3 17-12-10, 01:28

Keep your eyes open wherever you go, ask around for friends and aquaintances to keep you posted for anything that even resembles a mv to let you know etc. I have even gone as far as posting want ads in stores, local rag newspapers etc. You never know.

You say resto/mod, this terminology worries me somewhat? Maybe a little clarification may help as true restorers and collectors ofetn have extra projects available but are reluctant to sell especially in the case of someone wanting to chop, modify or ortherwise alter original vehicles... I had this happen once with a restorable M38 that ended up as a hotrod...

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #4 17-12-10, 01:37

20 years ago everybody in the hobby (and there seemed to be more of them back then) had a CMP...or three...tucked away for a restoration, often with boxes of NOS parts ready to go. Sadly, the cost, time and in many cases age prevented this from happening. But the question I have, is what happened to them all? I expected a bonanza of CMPs coming loose as these gents (or their families) came the realize the inevitable.

Where did they all go or are they still out there?

(I'd have that 12 cab Chev in B.C. too if it wasn't on the other side of the country)

One thing that's clear in Eastern Canada: if it hasn't been kept out of the weather, there probably isn't enough left to restore now anyway.

Marauder_Pilot · #5 17-12-10, 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris vickery

You say resto/mod, this terminology worries me somewhat? Maybe a little clarification may help as true restorers and collectors ofetn have extra projects available but are reluctant to sell especially in the case of someone wanting to chop, modify or ortherwise alter original vehicles... I had this happen once with a restorable M38 that ended up as a hotrod...

Don't worry, I'll never restore a vehicle that has potential for a 'proper' restoration. The mod would be a more modern engine and transmission so that I could actually take it safely on modern roads and not need to rebuild the engine every 100,000 KMs. I'd never mess with the body/suspension-my dream vehicle is a CMP with a modern diesel engine but is, cosmetically, 100% old-school CMP.

For example, I'd love to get ahold of this. Rip out the existing engine, which sounds dead, and replace it with a CSB.

Although, as a personal side note: I appreciate the sentiment behind keeping things original, but I have a few issues against it. One, it's not like we need to preserve a breeding pair of CMPs to continue the line. Two, someone else already has an original one better then I could ever do it. Three, the chances of exposing these wonderful vehicles to the world is much better if they're actually capable of running on modern roads.

Lynn Eades · #6 17-12-10, 02:17

I dont know how flat it is where you live, but most of these vehicles were built to travel slowly by modern expectations, and are probably more "under braked" than "underpowered" Repowering is probably relatively easy compared with upgrading the brakes. In most cases the best one can hope for, is to have the brakes in top original condition. Keep this in mind when you fit the 7.3 litre v8 diesel in your HUP.

(What is a CSB?)

David DeWeese · #7 17-12-10, 02:29

Hi Marauder Pilot,
I have an 8cwt cab 11 C8 that I went the "resto-mod" route with the drivetrain.
Lots of headaches to follow as one modification leads to another and so on...
If you find one that is reasonably complete, keep it that way. Trust me.
Thanks, David

Marauder_Pilot · #8 17-12-10, 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

I dont know how flat it is where you live, but most of these vehicles were built to travel slowly by modern expectations, and are probably more "under braked" than "underpowered" Repowering is probably relatively easy compared with upgrading the brakes. In most cases the best one can hope for, is to have the brakes in top original condition. Keep this in mind when you fit the 7.3 litre v8 diesel in your HUP.

(What is a CSB?)

It's...not flat around here, especially if you want to leave the Yukon. (The Alaska Highway down to BC is the definition of mountain road).

What would it take to upgrade the brakes on one? Is it possible just to put bigger brakes on it? As a note, I'm not above going so far as to replace the axels on it to fit bigger brakes.

Also, CSB = Chevy Small Block engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

Hi Marauder Pilot,
I have an 8cwt cab 11 C8 that I went the "resto-mod" route with the drivetrain.
Lots of headaches to follow as one modification leads to another and so on...
If you find one that is reasonably complete, keep it that way. Trust me.
Thanks, David

What engine did you fit for yours?

r.morrison · #9 17-12-10, 04:22

Marauder: Contact Robert in Vancouver at rob.mor@shaw.ca. Thanks

Bob Carriere · #10 17-12-10, 04:26

Interesting discussion.

Too each his own after all it will be your truck..... if you want a old looking vehicle that will handle, perform and generally drive like our modern pick em up truck I would suggest you get a wrecked modern pick up.....strip the body work and transplant a CMP body box on the modern power train....... in the long run it will be cheaper and run well

Reality dictates that the CMP was designed in a rush in the late 30s using vehicle technology of the period. Roads were not like our main highways and they expected to drive the trucks cross country.

CMPs were designed for a top speed of approx. 45 mph flat out in fourth gear using a 85 to 90 HP engine with state of the art brakes (circa 1935 design) and a steering and suspension to match that speed. Tires and rims were also design for endurance not for speed.......

I had a chat with the mechanic that owns the cab 11 Ford in Alexandria a few years ago..... he up graded the flat head V8 with a later Mercury engine and had it goosed up slightly.... he claimed the truck could do 65 mph but was ridiculous to handle needing both half of the country lane to drive at that speed.

As other custom designers have said and shown in US magazines..... anything can be done and re engineered if you have enough money/time but to try to up grade an over weight over designed cast axle to take better brakes is doable but then what about the suspension.... OK air bags.... and special aluminium billets machined rims to look like CMP rims..... and special thin wall 9 x16 custom made bar thread tires to handle the speed.

CMP are like elephants...... if you enjoy large klunky nostagic vehicles you are in for a treat....... if you need a daily driver as fast and dependable as today plastic computer cars....... it ain't the thing for you.

,,,but there is nothing wrong in designing the CMP of your dream.... and would love to see your progress documented with pictures on MLU.

Bob

Lynn Eades · #11 17-12-10, 04:30

Welcome to the forum.
Have you a name?
I might be a bit old fashioned, but I dont usually bother to talk to people who dont have a name with their post.( there are others here)
I guess after you've found one (a CMP, not a name), done it up, repowered it with a 350?, and given yourself a fright. Then we will see how you deal with it.
Along time back I met a bloke over here, that put a 350+auto in a CMP. He said it was great! Back then, when I was younger, going was more important than stopping, so I never asked about brakes.

sapper740 · #12 17-12-10, 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauder_Pilot

I've been on the lookout for a CMP truck to restore (Well, more realistically, resto-mod), but, unfortunately, they're damn hard to find, in any condition!

I've checked eBay, Kijiji and a handful of MV websites looking for them, and the few that do come up are always long gone by the time I see them.

I'm new to the MV community, so are there any other places I should be looking? (Besides scouring Canada's barns personally?)

M_P, why don't you look at acquiring one of the many bobbed M35's that abound on ebay? One of those sounds like it's right up your alley. They'll run 60mph all day on the highway and have the brakes to safely bring them to a halt, plus they can tow anything you want. Most purists aren't interested in seeing a rat-rodded CMP and other than installing a more modern 235, 261, or 250 cu. in. six for better dependability, they're best left stock for a better resale value and greater historical value. My 2 cents worth.

Cheers, Derek.

r.morrison · #13 17-12-10, 05:44

Derek: Couldn't agree with you more.....Robert

Alex van de Wetering · #14 17-12-10, 15:47

I intend to go the stock route with my CMP, but I have seen a number of upgraded CMP's over the years, and although not my cup of tea....some looked really smart. Fitting a more modern diesel is something that has definately been done before, and I think I remember one or two for sale in the UK. But, as David mentioned, you have to avoid going from one mod to another. I think David did a clever job on his 8cwt, but I have also seen less succesfull attempts with bad nose jobs on cab 13's as a result.

A bit more speed would be nice...better braking and handling would even be better.....but you don't really plan to drive 100.000km in a CMP??

Also check the forum, as the subject of Nissan (?) diesels and other engine upgrades have been discussed here before.

Alex

cletrac (RIP) · #15 17-12-10, 19:34

For what you want, take a Chev CMP 13 cab (more interior room and easier to get in and out of) and put in a 261 Pontiac engine. (150 hp) Adapt a T5 overdrive 5 speed or the like onto the Chev bellhousing and you could drive it at 65 mph or so. Put some soft modern non military 16" tires on it and remove a few spring leaves from each corner (the shorter ones make the most difference) and the ride will be greatly improved. Rebuild the stock brakes and you won't have any trouble stopping. If driving in the mountains use the gears for engine braking like truckers do so you're not totally relying on the brakes. Restore the body and nobody will know the difference. It'll be kind of noisy and the cab will be kind of cramped and it'll ride a bit harsh and you won't win many races but you'll be able to go on those back mountain roads without much trouble.

Marauder_Pilot · #16 17-12-10, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Interesting discussion.

Too each his own after all it will be your truck..... if you want a old looking vehicle that will handle, perform and generally drive like our modern pick em up truck I would suggest you get a wrecked modern pick up.....strip the body work and transplant a CMP body box on the modern power train...

I'm not above that, either-while I'd never dream of 'rodding' a CMP, I'd love to have one that I can drive on modern roads. It's something I may have to put some rese

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Welcome to the forum.
Have you a name?
I might be a bit old fashioned, but I dont usually bother to talk to people who dont have a name with their post.( there are others here)
I guess after you've found one (a CMP, not a name), done it up, repowered it with a 350?, and given yourself a fright. Then we will see how you deal with it.
Along time back I met a bloke over here, that put a 350+auto in a CMP. He said it was great! Back then, when I was younger, going was more important than stopping, so I never asked about brakes.

I'm not looking to make a CMP that'll drag race and smoke tires, just be able to cruise safely at 55-60 MPH.

Also, added my name up there-I didn't really notice that this is one of those forums more oriented towards using real names when I registered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapper740

M_P, why don't you look at acquiring one of the many bobbed M35's that abound on ebay? One of those sounds like it's right up your alley. They'll run 60mph all day on the highway and have the brakes to safely bring them to a halt, plus they can tow anything you want. Most purists aren't interested in seeing a rat-rodded CMP and other than installing a more modern 235, 261, or 250 cu. in. six for better dependability, they're best left stock for a better resale value and greater historical value. My 2 cents worth.

Cheers, Derek.

I've looked into bobbed Deuces before, and they're certainly an option-I just like the CMP better.

And, again, not trying to rod it, just to make it a bit more practical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cletrac

For what you want, take a Chev CMP 13 cab (more interior room and easier to get in and out of) and put in a 261 Pontiac engine. (150 hp) Adapt a T5 overdrive 5 speed or the like onto the Chev bellhousing and you could drive it at 65 mph or so. Put some soft modern non military 16" tires on it and remove a few spring leaves from each corner (the shorter ones make the most difference) and the ride will be greatly improved. Rebuild the stock brakes and you won't have any trouble stopping. If driving in the mountains use the gears for engine braking like truckers do so you're not totally relying on the brakes. Restore the body and nobody will know the difference. It'll be kind of noisy and the cab will be kind of cramped and it'll ride a bit harsh and you won't win many races but you'll be able to go on those back mountain roads without much trouble.

Now this is pretty much exactly what I want to do. Maybe find an engine that can be adapted for fuel injection, although there's still something to be said for carbs...

Tires would be replaced, at least for long-distance travel, by some modern all-terrains (I'm a big fan of BFG TA K/Os, myself)-I'd keep a set of military tires for show and fun, though.

I'm not all that picky on the ride. I've owned nothing but Jeep Wranglers and CJs all my life, and driven almost nothing but them and service vehicles.

Jim Price · #17 19-12-10, 04:03

MP,
A couple of years ago (and many dollars as well!) I completed the restoration of an F8, Cab 11. I can honestly say that a project like this is not for the faint of heart! This site is the best for getting advice and feedback. The members of it were most helpful in aiding me with suggestions and answers to my questions. I strongly recommend that you maintain the integirity of the vehicle as a whole as you are restoring a part of history, something that nobody likes to have rewritten.

Now, having said that, I did install a '46 Mercury flathead (15 more horsepower) and did install an automatic transmission. BUT, I pinned the clutch pedal to the brake shaft so that the pedal set-up looks just like the original. One can press on either pedal for braking. And, I installed a Locar shifter which comes up into the cab in the exact same location as the original shift arm. Both of these do make driving the vehicle much safer due to the very limited foot space for the pedals.

I might add that neither "adjustments" affect the authentic look of the interior.

As for driving at speeds over 60, I wouldn't recommend it. Mine drives fine up to that speed with the hard tires but at 45-55 MPH one does feel much more secure!

Best of luck in your search for a vehicle!

Regards,
Jim

PS I did remove those "crab eyes" turn signal indicator fixtures and installed a pair in holes on either end of the bumper.

Bob Carriere · #18 19-12-10, 04:16

Jim..... Congratulations......

...... you took an ugly orphan that no one would touch in Canada and you turned it into a jewel that a lot of us would love to own..... you are a tribute to the CMP hobby and a tribute to what MLU stands for......

.... a lot of us followed attentively as you progressed in your restoration and learned from your experience....... that's what it is all about !!!!!!

Bob C.

Local Chap · #19 19-12-10, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Price

I can honestly say that .... you are restoring a part of history, something that nobody likes to have rewritten.

Now, having said that, I did install a '46 Mercury flathead (15 more horsepower) and did install an automatic transmission.
Regards,
Jim

Jim, if you're not into rewriting history, don't suggest the '46 Mercury has more power than a '41 CMP engine. They are identical engines of 3 3/16" bore for 239ci. Ford rated the later engines higher due to better quality fuel available postwar (95hp vs 100hp), not due to any redesign or improvement.

Jim Price · #20 20-12-10, 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local Chap

Jim, if you're not into rewriting history, don't suggest the '46 Mercury has more power than a '41 CMP engine. They are identical engines of 3 3/16" bore for 239ci. Ford rated the later engines higher due to better quality fuel available postwar (95hp vs 100hp), not due to any redesign or improvement.

LC,
You're absolutely correct. I inadvertently used the stats from the Flathead Specification site and not my Ford Special Pattern Vehicles Instruction Book (Second Edition) which clearly shows that the original engine in my F8 did have a 3 3/16 bore and 95 hp. My bad!

Regards,
Jim

Pete Ashby · #21 20-12-10, 08:36

Hello Don

You raise an interesting question which taxes a number of restores and collectors as the differential in road speed between our trucks and modern traffic gets ever larger particularly here in the UK with our high population density. For example here in the UK motorway driving will as a norm produce a speed differential of 45mph assuming a CMP at 35mph and a modern vehicle travelling at 80mph, (yes I know the limit is 70mph but no one drives at this speed anymore). In recent years a small number of historic military vehicles have been involved in rear end collisions nearly all on motorways as a result I suspect of modern drivers misjudging the closing speed, they expect the MV to be doing 50 to 60 mph, no excuse for bad driving but it is an unwelcome fact. Given the facts your argument for modifying the drive train has validity. However, and this is the sticking point for me, I do think it brings into focus the reasons for restoring our vehicles are we preserving mechanical engineering history some of which is now at least 70 years old or are we trying to keep alive the spirit of the men who used our trucks? For me it’s both and ultimately it’s your truck and you can do as you want with it but I would suggest as others already have that the route to modern upgrading can never be straight forward or wholly satisfactory from the engineering stand point. The danger is that you will end up with a vehicle that is neither a historical example or one that is mechanically sound in terms of modern standards and in terms of its monetary value will seriously be reduced. I see you live in the Yukon so anywhere from you must be a seriously long way away, with that and the above points in mind would a better solution be to buy a more modern MV for shows, meets etc and if you are really keen on CMP’s get one and restore it to original spec and enjoy it locally. This raises another spectre in the shape of why restore something if it sits in the barn and no one sees it…….. probably a topic for a another discussion?

Pete

Jim Price · #22 20-12-10, 18:30

Bob,
Thanks for the kind words! As you well know, those are the only real recompense we restorers receive for our efforts!

Regards,
Jim

Marauder_Pilot · #23 20-12-10, 22:35

Pete,

It's definitely an interesting discussion, and nobody is really wrong, no matter their opinions on it.

I personally believe there's room for both showroom/garage queens with immaculate paintjobs and matching serial numbers all around, and for kitbashed restorations with new engines and modern tires and such.

I'm not all that concerned about the monetary value here. I'm looking at taking some relatively cheap CMPs that are already missing several parts sitting in a field and trying to breathe some life back into them. Here's what I may be working with, if everything falls into place for the new year:

The thing is, while I'm definitely not bad with a ratchet set and an airbrush, I'm not a professional. Not even close. I don't even work with cars for a living, I fix computers. I'm doing this for the experience and the shot at getting a piece of history rolling again. I couldn't build a museum-quality replica even if I wanted, especially not with a pair of CMPs with no beds and engines of questionable quality.

But there are already plenty that HAVE been preserved-and I'm doing these a lot more justice getting them back on the road with different engines and modern tires and such then letting them rust into scrap or letting them get carted off to the scrapyard where they'll be crush and sent to China and melted down to make Buicks.

I'm not doing this for the show aspect so much-the closest one to me would be the Edmonton or Vancouver shows, and I don't own a vehicle that could tow one down there anyways. Plus, I have a natural disinterest in 'trailer queens'-these things were meant to run.

Since I'm looking at picking up two that are, at least mechanically, intact, I may try out both routes-take the one in worst shape, put in a slighty newer engine and whatnot and try it at modern speeds, and try and keep the better one closer to factory specs.

David DeWeese · #24 21-12-10, 05:59

Hi Don,
If you are hell-bent on making a CMP run on modern components, then so be it.
Factors to consider are width and compatability:
The width of CMP trucks is narrow compared to trucks of today's standards. This translates from axle width down to spring mount width, which then becomes a real problem.
Take a tape measure to a modern truck running gear and compare it to a CMP and tell us what you find and what you think will fit....
Compatability-wise, nothing will fit past the mid 1960's that I have found. Talking about GM products here only as I don't know squat about Fords...
Here to help and not to hinder...
Thanks, David

gary_bath_jr · #25 21-12-10, 06:16

Hey Don

I am in the same boat as you, I am a computer guy for 10 years now, I have 2 CMP's that I want to restore to showroom condition and then take them out for a ride. I also can handle a ratchet and other tools however a welder is going to be interesting. I think a lot of guys here are trying to tell you that these trucks were made for offroad and not speed so the upgrades are thinking of making could be problamatic for you. If you do get the upgrades in and the truck runs for you then I think that is great, as you say another truck saved from the wrecker and the rust, I personally would rather see the truck running than rusting or flattened.

Good luck on your restoration and remember to post plenty of pics as we all would like to see the progress even if some are against your plans. If you need any pams or whatnot let me know.

Gary

stovebolt · #26 21-12-10, 14:54

Don. Give Mike a call at Midnight Sun Sheet Metal & Heating in Whitehorse.
(867) 668-2956. He has a collection of WWII parts trucks. I didn't see any CMPs but he might know of one. Good luck, Joe.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #27 21-12-10, 17:37

Don..
You can basically do what you want and I have been around these things for 600 years and have always thought I would like to take the CMP distinctive cab and box and just strip the body off a modern pick up truck and plop it down on the new frame and running gear..That would work and you would have left hand drive and all the good stuff..sort out the dash and make it fit and you would have all the modern conveniences..like Heat and air ,good breaks and 200 MPH potential..with a super charger..
If you look at some of the CMP conversions in Thailand,you would soon realize that some camouflage tactics and you can do any thing you want and still have that CMP Look..
Go for it...
But what ever you do take pictures and post them here and have fun..
Damned the torpedoes and full speed ahead.!!!

Marauder_Pilot · #28 21-12-10, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

Compatability-wise, nothing will fit past the mid 1960's that I have found. Talking about GM products here only as I don't know squat about Fords...
Here to help and not to hinder...
Thanks, David

That's OK, upon further research I'm not going to try and shoehorn a modern engine in there, rather a '50s or '60s GM straight-6 of some variety with a hair more power and more readily available parts.

stovebolt, I'll look them up, thanks!

Bob Carriere · #29 21-12-10, 21:42

Hi Don

Sure a lot of traffic on this issue...... just a couple of observations on what you most recently wrote.....

You mentioned that your area of expertise was computers and not mechanics/body work..... well the thruth be know most of us are frustrated wanna be mechanics/welders/bodymen....... in fact I suspect that the majority of the MLU membership are not mechanics but rather earn our livelyhood doing something else...... and turn to MLU / CMP and all that is greasy/mechanics as a release from the frustration of life....

I for one is am a professional paper pusher for the Feds.... once out of the office I like to do work with my hands..... very little formal training in what is required to restore or repair a CMP......

Collectively the greatest attributes are....willingness to try... the stubborness to persist...... and be dumb enough not to know we can't do it......oh yes money!!! do not restore a CMP to sell for a profit...!!!!

Some of the greatest restorations have been done by members who presisted and turned to MLU, books, the web, EBay, etc. to find ways to make it work.

Another firm belief that I suscribe to..... you cannot restore a CMP with out have a couple of vehicles as a parts source.... or just as a model to look at when you can't remember how the parts fits...... the three Mousequeteers at the Hammond barn have in excess of 24 parts trucks to draw from.....

Get yourself some CMPs.... and go for it...... but..... you have to keep us posted of your progress or failures....... I know if no other places where such a wealth of information is so readily available.

Bob C

Phil Waterman · #30 21-12-10, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Hi Don

Sure a lot of traffic on this issue...... just a couple of observations on what you most recently wrote..... ...

You mentioned that your area of expertise was computers and not mechanics/body work..... well the thruth be know most of us are frustrated wanna be mechanics/welders/bodymen.......

... do not restore a CMP to sell for a profit...!!!!

..... you cannot restore a CMP with out have a couple of vehicles as a parts source.... or just as a model to look at when you can't remember how the parts fits...... the three Mousequeteers at the Hammond barn have in excess of 24 parts trucks to draw from.....

Get yourself some CMPs.... and go for it...... but..... you have to keep us posted of your progress or failures....... I know if no other places where such a wealth of information is so readily available.

Bob C

I just wanted to expand on Bobs points a little and to disagree with one point.

You most certainly must be craze to restore a CMP but as most who have gotten into this mania realize almost nobody restores just one. In its advance stage CMP mania requires you to restore the second and even the third trucks. Bob mentions that it is important to have a parts sources ie. the proverbial parts trucks what we have to let Bob in on is those aren't parts trucks they are potential restoration projects.

One of the nice things about CMPs is because they were designed to be built with the simplest available parts and parts manufactures so much of the trucks are reproducible.

Cheers Phil