CF HLVW Photo reference gallery

[Robin Craig]

Well, I hope you don't mind some history.

I have always wanted the whole story, all of it. I guess it comes from being a scale model maker and wanting all the detail to do it right, really right. Somehow that followed me when I got into recording CF vehicles and photo journalism.

I the early 1990s I had heard that two re production prototypes had been sold off and were leading quiet lives in civvy street. UTDC the licenced builder in Kingston sold them off or, PWSGC sold them. Someone will remind us soon. My bet is UTDC.

Anyhow. Through a flaw in my records I don't have a date for this first one but I can tell you that I trekked down to just past Kingston to a quaint volunteer Fire Department at a place called Newburgh.

I spent some time up on a tall ladder in a field to get these shots, the one that captures the light illuminated is one of my most favourite photos, the colour scanned in here just does not do it justice.

Anyhow, here she is, lets have some comments. Then I will chime in tomorrow with some of my own.

[Robin Craig]

Now, I am not sure how many pre production vehicles there were exactly, did any get rebuilt into production vehicles?

This second one popped up being used by Karsons Kartage in Carp, Ontario. It was when Karsons was still private.

They made it into a water truck and used it a lot on job sites around the area. I have not seen it for a while but I know that some detective work might find if it is on the road these days or whether it languishes in a scrap yard or is razor blades.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

I spent some time up on a tall ladder in a field to get these shots

Only a scale modeller would think of that! What a great idea and it certainly paid off here, makes a fabulous change from the usual eye level shots. I'm now thinking of carrying a folding ladder in the car! Nice work Robin, you've showcased these two vehicles beautifully.

[Robin Craig]

Dear Tony,

Thank you for those kind words. The model maker in me demanded many images that wont be shown here for lack of space. There were 3 rolls of 36 exposures shot on the Fire truck alone. If you only knew where these boxes of these pictures have been and how much of a miracle it is they have survived the over 15 years of being a stateless nomad then you will understand why I want to show them to others.

[Robin Craig]

When the folks at the Newburg Fire Department won the bid on the truck they went to the factory at UTDC to collect it. They were told to drive around the building very slowly and keep going round and round, "just do it" is what one person recalled.

So, in the vehicle they got, and duly drove around slowly, as they did people opened doors and walked out and stopped them carrying boxes of random spares and were told "better you have these than they go into the dumpster".

They got quite a haul in the end.

The vehicle if I understand, was the prototype for the wrecker and I think has a different rear axle spring set up than the Karsons water truck.

The folks at Newburg built the whole of that tanker body themselves. After finishing the work they approached Dupont, another local Kingston business in an attempt to cut costs and get some free paint for it. The reply was swift from Dupont. "No, we wont supply free paint", the next sentence floored them, "But give us the whole truck and we will paint it for you" which is what happened. The vehicle went to Dupont and duly returned in a paint job better than they could have ever done.

I will try to link up with them over the winter and see how the truck has survived.

Curiously that photo shoot turned up a weird cargo body section that got turned into a civvy trailer, must look that up..

The Karsons truck is an unknown to me, I never did get anyone within the company willing to speak nor did I have the resources to chase them. I think Eagle Eyed Eric (Booth), the editor of CMP magazine, was the first person to alert me to its existence. As it has a provincial licence plate that could reveal some data.

[Ed Storey]

These two civilian HLVWs could have been CFRs 80924 and 80925 as both of those vehicles were disposed of in April 1993.

[Robin Craig]

ED,

That is great news, I'm thinking that if they had CFRs that you can quote they were crown property by then?

Do you have any pictures of either of those two vehicles when they were still in use by the CF or trials team? Can you post them them?

Thanks

R

[rob love]

I believe that CFR plates could be applied to an "on-loan" vehicle in order to provide accounting and liability. I think I have seen CFRs on some armour that was borrowed for testing and trials.

[Frank v R]

this makes the future for the fleet look very good ie. when DND is done with them as 2 are on the road and plated,

[Ed Storey]

Rob makes a good point as I have observed that LETE used to reissue CFRs to trials vehicles which can making tracking them difficult when the same CFR has been used on two or three different vehicles.

For some of the post-1980 vehicle fleets there appears to have been a small number of trials vehicles that were plated, used for a couple of years and then disposed of early in the life cycle of the fleet. I have noticed this with the MLVW, Iltis and the DEW M101CDN2 and now perhaps the HLVW.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Frank v R

this makes the future for the fleet look very good ie. when DND is done with them as 2 are on the road and plated,

Then is then and now is now. It was only 5-6 years ago you could buy a running leopard hull in the $14,000 range, or MLVW hulks for a little over 1K. We see very little green released these days. T

he HLVWs are really showing their age as well. Transmissions are very very hard to repair. The Cdn Army is short over 100 transmissions at present, and if the truck is not a wrecker, or a special variant, it will wait a long time for a transmission. Basically, they are driven as long as they will keep moving. Front suspensions have been found to have elongated in both the brackets and the frame. They were a great truck 20 years ago, but parts are becoming scarce and with the relatively small quantity the CF has, it is hard to get companies to produce just a hundred or so of anything.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Then is then and now is now. It was only 5-6 years ago you could buy a running leopard hull in the $14,000 range, or MLVW hulks for a little over 1K. We see very little green released these days. T

he HLVWs are really showing their age as well. Transmissions are very very hard to repair. The Cdn Army is short over 100 transmissions at present, and if the truck is not a wrecker, or a special variant, it will wait a long time for a transmission. Basically, they are driven as long as they will keep moving. Front suspensions have been found to have elongated in both the brackets and the frame. They were a great truck 20 years ago, but parts are becoming scarce and with the relatively small quantity the CF has, it is hard to get companies to produce just a hundred or so of anything.

Sad but true.

I had the pleasure of driving a 10 ton PLS in Meaford back in the summer for the first time in nearly a decade. Great truck yes, but all the busted or missing plastic parts really showed its age. Something as simple as a broken driveshaft required deep reachback into the supply system, and IIRC, the final approved solution was to pull one from a truck in Petawawa and send it out in order to get it home. I realize its not exactly a tank, but I can't even fathom the amount of $$$ that would be required to keep one of these rolling in private hands after the hard years they've had.

[Robin Craig]

Another weekend and some more slides scanned.

My favourite truck in any fleet is always a wrecker because of it being a live animated all singing all dancing truck. I adore vehicles that work for a living and are all business.

The crane seen in the side shot at Chateau Montebello on 92982 in 1995 is only one of 3 business ends of the machine. the stinger arm on 93007 taken at Petawawa in 1994 is being readied for a casualty.

The HLVW fleet were as a whole painted in the factory in a camouflage scheme to the same pattern. Magnetic sheeting masks were used and they were supposed to be all the same as the signed off vehicle that was the standard.

That was great, but then when an overseas UN deployment had them all painted white, they returned and were painted monotone green (93029) in 1998 as doing the cam scheme over was too costly, and what if they when on a UN mission again?

For the D Day anniversary in Ottawa the CF supported the movement of vehicles. Here we see a wrecker 93090 lifting a universal wotsit onto the back deck of a trailer. Curiously I saw someone else attempt to load a Carrier to the same style of deck by driving it up and fail, but that is another story.

[Robin Craig]

Inevitably some vehicles are sent home on flatbeds as this HLVW cargo with crane is. It was more like a salt lick when I snapped 92601 on a civvy float. This is why our vehicles don't last when exposed to corrosion.

92421 seems almost pristine in 1994 taken at a display by 450 Squadron in Ottawa.

The fuel pods in the back of the cargo are 92516 in Ottawa in 1998, I am thinking this was before any of the tankers were built.

The all green wrecker with the cab flipped is 92893 and this was during a big exercise during 1998 in and around the Ottawa valley replicating Bosnia or Yugoslavia.

The under the cab shot of the engine is again 93090 but a year earlier

[rob love]

The change in paint schemes were not a cost saving measure, but rather a policy that B vehicles were to be painted the flat green. Perhaps it was because a B vehicle is supposed to be to the rear, and not treated as a combat vehicle. The days of having a sofskin like an Iltis or an LSVW in forward service are long over.

The fuel pods did not meet transport Canada requirements. They were removed from the trucks along with the pumps, filter units, and the entire cargo box. Those items were sold off through CADC, and the cab and chassis were sent off to be built into tankers. This occurred around 2002.

[Robin Craig]

I am absolutely tickled pink as to the information that is coming out and being woven around these pictures for all to see.

I am very grateful to all of you who post the knowledge you have on here

Thank you one and all

Robin

[Robin Craig]

I am now an active member of our volunteer Fire and Rescue department.

Just over a week ago I went one dark snowy night to a mutual aid meeting at a Fire Hall of a neighbouring department a few miles away.

Imagine my surprise when I walked in and saw her again!

She has moved stations but still with the same municipality, hence a different name on the door.

A new fuel tank was fitted a while ago.

Anyhow, she is still in service, just.

Robin

[Ed Storey]

Robin, thank you for posting these images. I would think that when the time comes for the fire department to dispose of this unique vehicle that some collector or museum should step up and save it. if only my pockets were deeper and my garage much bigger....

[Bob Carriere]

That when Newburg got the new tanker it actually replace a running cab 12, no roof, C15a water tanker for rural fires. The tank was under construction at the time with only the side piece installed.

The cab 12 was up for sale in Auto trader. I went down to look at it and actually drove it in the village street....... and missed a down shift going up a hill.

The lucky bidder was Mel N. from Oshawa and his CMP water truck is usually on display at the Oshawa event now fully restored.

One of the firemen took me to his house where he had a new set of six 9x16 Michelin tires mounted on Steyr rims.....which I acquired but not used yet. Tires had been sold as surplus after a reverse engineering project got canned.

Small world is it not .....

Cheers

[Robin Craig]

Bob,

I am glad you chimed in about the CMP tanker it replaced as I had been told all that and think I saw it in Ottawa once at Lansdown.

Yes it is a small world.

And Ed, get behind me as I have already put my name on the list to be informed if it is to be sold . . . she doesn't know . . . shhhhh

Robin

[Frank v R]

Robin , I just noticed the first photos have town of Newburgh fire on them , this HLVW may VERY well have replaced another old soldier , a Chev C15 12 cab water truck that was operated by that dept , it was in fact hiding only a mile or two from my farm and was sold off at about the correct time, the truck was restored and then was left to sit outside and is now at the museum in the bone yard, some of my tax money paid for that truck ,