Phonetic alphabet

[Tony Smith]

As we know, there was a British/Commonwealth Phonetic Alphabet during WW2, as well as a US one. The US one has survived to become the NATO version.

Does anyone know the origin of this Parody version of the Phonetic Alphabet? I believe it dates from around the ww2 period, quite possibly from a British comedian, but there is certain Canadian bias. Some of them you will have to say out loud to "get them".

A for 'Orses
B for Mutton
C for Th' Highlanders
D for rential
E for Peron
F for vessence
G for get it
H be for beauty
I for Tower
J for Oranges
K for Sunday
L for Leather
M for Sis
N for lope
O for the Moon
P for relief
Q for a bus
R for Askey
S ?
T for two
U for Me
V for la France
W for Quits
X for Breakfast
Y for Girlfriend
Z for breeze

[Mike Cecil]

E for Peron: Eva Duarte did not become Eva Peron (if that is what it is referring to) until 1945, and 'famous' as the first lady of Argentina until Peron became president in 1946(?), if that's a clue as to the date of the parody alphabet. She died in the 1950s.

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

You Aussies seem to have had your own (not parody) early in WWII, where S was for Sugar.

[Mike Cecil]

Lynn,

S for Sugar: As did the British Army during the Second World War and into the 1950s.

The 1952 War Office Signals Pam lists the phonetic alphabet that includes S for Sugar, but the 1955 pam lists the NATO standardised phonetic alphabet which includes S for Sierra. Not sure when this version was introduced into Australia, but probably around the same time. It was certainly the phonetic alphabet in use in Australia by the mid-1960s.

Still, this is straying from Tony's original question: the origin and date of the parody.

Mike

[Richard Farrant]

I think what Tony has here is a version of the Cockney Alphabet, the following link comes from a Sydney newspaper website;
https://www.smh.com.au/news/Big-Ques...582700584.html

regards, Richard

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

The 1952 War Office Signals Pam lists the phonetic alphabet that includes S for Sugar, but the 1955 pam lists the NATO standardised phonetic alphabet which includes S for Sierra. Not sure when this version was introduced into Australia, but probably around the same time. It was certainly the phonetic alphabet in use in Australia by the mid-1960s.

Mike

It was obviously an evolving system.

The 1907 (printed 1911) manual lists the partial alphabet in use at the
time, since telephony was still rather new:

"The letters T, A, B, M, S, P and V will be called Toc, Ack,
Beer, Emma, Esses, Pip and Vic respectively, so as to
phonetically distinguish them from similarly sounding letters,
and to ensure uniformity, no other names will be given them
or to any of the other letters of the alphabet."

(Page 220 of "Training Manual - Signalling, 1907 (Reprinted, with
amendments to 1st May 1911) Part III, Chapter XI, Section 216 -
Course of Instruction, Subsection 7, paragraph 3".)

I find that odd, as C or E are not mentioned and do sound like T, B or V, while A doesn't readily sound like any other letter and shouldn't require Ack.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

I think what Tony has here is a version of the Cockney Alphabet, ...

regards, Richard

Richard, thank you that is a much fuller list, but it still doesn't nail down the original source (but does mention the possibility of British comedians of the 30's and 40's). I think this might be a popular culture thing that has been forgotten in the mists of time, I was hoping someone might say "Ahh yes that was part of such and such's radio play, or it was seen in this such movie".

[Mike K]

I believe the early 1920's British wireless sets were known as Ack and Charlie sets. BTW a local here has an original case for a Ack set, it has the appearance of being made by a cabinetmaker

I learnt the modern phonetics when I was studying for a ham radio license, it was part of the regulations syllabus. With all of the other crap that is now little used PAN PAN PAN

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Ak, Beer, Charlie, Don, Edward, Freddie, George, Harry, Ink, Johnnie, King, London, Monkey, Nuts, Orange, Pip, Queen, Robert, Sugar, Toc, Uncle, Vic, William, X-Ray, Yorker, Zebra....early WW2.

Able, Baker, Charlie, Dog, Easy, Fox, George, How, Item, Jig, King, Love, Mike, Nan, Oboe, Peter, Queen, Roger, Sugar, Tare, Uncle, Victor, William, X-Ray, Yoke, Zebra ...1942 when it was standardized to accommodate the Americans.

Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India, Juliett, Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, Papa, Quebec, Romeo, Sierra, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whiskey, X-Ray, Yankee, Zulu...1950's adopted for NATO.

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Bruce, that is interesting.; Somewhere I have a pam that lists the differences between the US and British/Australian phonetic alphabet, but I'm yet to locate it (so didn't mention it above). It probably dates from late 41/early 42 based of your comments and that the pam I could readily put my hands on was dated 1942.

Tony: yes, the system has evolved - until standardised by way of NATO for western nations. (Wonder what the Russians and the Chinese use?)

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

Bruce' first list is exactly as per my copy of the Australian Armoured Corps pamphlet No.3 Intercommunication Provisional- May 1941.
I now assume it was the commonwealth standard?

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Bruce' first list is exactly as per my copy of the Australian Armoured Corps pamphlet No.3 Intercommunication Provisional- May 1941.
I now assume it was the commonwealth standard?

..as at May 41, perhaps.

But as shown above, from 1907 and through WW1 to ????, only a few letters received "Names", while other letters stayed as you would pronounce the letter. That is why we ended with such odd titles as Don R for Despatch Rider, or Toc H for the Talbot House recreation facilities. This usage precedes the May 41 Pam, but I wonder when exactly between the wars the full alphabet was coded, instead of the partial list used during WW1?

BTW: How do Canadians pronounce "Z"; Zee or Zed? (I know, I know, you're going to tell me "Z, eh". )

[Ed Storey]

Z = Zed in Canada.

[Bob Carriere]

......ZED..... that's in French!!!!!

Must be the only bilingual letter in Canada .....

Bub/Bob

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Pre WW2 alphabets are a bit of a mess. There was one in 1904, a naval one, and a completely different one for the army 1914-18 (Apple, Butter, Charlie, Duff...London...Pudding...). Sometime at the end of WW1 they standardized based much on the 1904 one which evolved into Ack, Beer, Charlie. All the previous ones post 1904 (except army) were similar but different in some letters with words disappearing then reappearing in the next version.

George, King, Uncle, WIlliam and Zebra were common to all of them until the NATO Golf, Kilo, Uniform, Whisky and Zulu.