Info needed: C8A HUW J&J Restoration

[Bert den Brok]

Dear All,
I regularly follow the MLU forum with interest. However, I have never written an article to share opinions, thoughts and information with you.
A few years ago I had to sell a large part of my collection, because my workshop and storage space had to make way for another destination.
A large part of my collection was sold through an auction at BVA, which was also mentioned on the MLU forum.
With thanks to Hanno Spoelstra for some editorial pieces, the following link gives an insight into who I am and what I have done and collected:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?p=245124
A number of larger units, including the Ford FGT cab 13, the Limbers, the 25 Pdrs and the Ford F15A, are not sold. I have found a new storage space for this. I can move these items within a short time. The above items remain in my collection.

Then I came into possession of a Chevrolet C8A HUW that was offered on the MLU forum. See the following links for this. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?p=250990
and a message from Ed Storey 26/11-17
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...110#post245110
It seems appropriate to name the restoration of this HUW after the well-known previous owners John and Johan (J&J).

My intention (!! ??) is to have the HUW inspected for a Dutch license plate this year.
So I have been working on a thorough restoration for several years now.
The current state of affairs can be seen in photos.

At that time I had to make decisions about the color.
I also discovered that taking a photo of a part to determine the color always looks different from reality.
I have tried to remove retrofitted old paint in many places and believe the vehicle was painted brown from the factory both inside and out. That ultimately became the basis of this Chevrolet C8A HUW.
This color almost matched the color of my Ford F-GT.

A number of technical data are known about this vehicle, but some data may still be missing.
Therefore, if possible, I would like to exchange ideas with you to obtain the correct information about this vehicle.
Some information known to me is listed on a data list (Vehicle Details) of the previous owners, Mr. John Marchant and Mr. Johan van Rijn, see photo. Also a photo of the dashboard.
Well, I found the same chassis number on the chassis. The engine number does not match the chassis number plate. Now the engine number is PR3831815.

I still have to find the dimensions to make all the steel cabinets.

I would like to hear if all this old technical data can be correct.

Kind regards.
Bert

[Bert den Brok]

And some additional information

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Bert,

Good to see you on here and congrats on the restoration of the "J&J" HUW - it really looks great

Originally Posted by Bert den Brok

A number of technical data are known about this vehicle, but some data may still be missing.
Therefore, if possible, I would like to exchange ideas with you to obtain the correct information about this vehicle.
Some information known to me is listed on a data list (Vehicle Details) of the previous owners, Mr. John Marchant and Mr. Johan van Rijn, see photo. Also a photo of the dashboard.
Well, I found the same chassis number on the chassis. The engine number does not match the chassis number plate. Now the engine number is PR3831815.

I would like to hear if all this old technical data can be correct.

I think you already know a lot of history and technical details about your HUW. In fact, much more than other CMP owners often know. If you do not have it, I will dig our John Marchant's "work and play with CMPs" booklet and see if there is additional info in it. Possibly Ed Storey can chime in as well.

It was quite common for engines to be changed out, so the fact that it is now fitted with a different engine than the one which was fitted in the factory is nothing to be concerned about.

[Maurice Donckers]

John had a Diesel engine in it in the beginning , and later put a Stovebolt Chev engine back in it , outside Olive drab and Brown Camo where found under the paint by John

[Ed Storey]

Bert, you have done a wonderful job of restoring John's C8A HUW. Seeing it brings back fond memories of first riding in that vehicle with John to Normandy in 1984 and I look forward to once again seeing it in its Toronto Scottish markings.

ED

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bert den Brok

And some additional information

"Order no LV 309" is listed as a contract placed by the Canadian government as CDLV 309 - see the full list of C8A contract here: Chevrolet Heavy Utility contracts. CD stands for Contract Demand, LV is thought to stand for Land Vehicles.
Here are two known serial numbers from that contract:

• 2844515234 ENGINE # FR3838709 L.V. 309 AUGUST 14 1942 [C-HU-441-M-WIRE1] Z 65-479
• 2844515470 ENGINE # FR3866568 ORDER L.V. 309 NOVEMBER 17 1942

I have not seen this type of data plate before. Are they copies of the original ones? The second plate should not be on a C8A, as the info relates to a C15A 4x4 truck.

[Bert den Brok]

Hello Hanno, it took a while but I am happy that I took the step to participate in the MLU forum. (my English is for what it is) The knowledge of Chevrolet and Ford CMP Vehicles still leaves a lot to be desired. I am often faced with a challenging surprise.

Hi Maurice, the fact that a diesel engine was installed in the past may explain the (many) cutting work on the chassis, frame and floor plates in the cabin area. The vehicle has changed color several times over the years. All in all I came across 4 different colors of paint.
However, on the chassis near the rear engine mounting I found, in my opinion, a reasonably traceable first layer of paint. This emerged after removing a thick layer of oil and grease.


Hi Ed, the lettering will be entirely in accordance with Toronto Scottish. The photos of this will follow soon. On older layers of paint I could not find any characters other than Toronto Scottish characters.
What I also cannot figure out is the meaning of “W/T” on the right front door. This was on the old visible layer of paint. However, I couldn't find anything on the first (bottom) layer of paint. On a layer in between there was only a “W” behind the W.D. Number.

Hanno, now you investigate the type plate on the dashboard.
This was the plate when I bought the HUW from Johan van Rijn. In addition, the two original plates as in the photo. I don't have any other type plate. This may have been removed at some point as a souvenir. I intend to have a NOS type plate printed with the correct information.

Assuming that the chassis number stamped on the chassis is decisive for me, I understand as you write that the Order Number (CD)LV 309 cannot correspond to the year of the chassis number? That should perhaps be (CD)LV 308.
If I look at the engine number on the nameplate (FR3891254), I think that the production date corresponds to the nameplate.
I also cannot determine the date on which the chassis number 2844------ (1942) changed to 3844------ (1943). So chassis numbers with 2844------ were also made in early 1943?
All in all, I think that all information is correct with the possible exception of Order Number 309.

Can anyone tell me at which chassis number LV 308 ended and at which chassis number LV 309 began?

Thank you for your positive responses.
Regards, Bert

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Bert den Brok

Hi Ed, the lettering will be entirely in accordance with Toronto Scottish. The photos of this will follow soon. On older layers of paint I could not find any characters other than Toronto Scottish characters.
What I also cannot figure out is the meaning of “W/T” on the right front door. This was on the old visible layer of paint. However, I couldn't find anything on the first (bottom) layer of paint. On a layer in between there was only a “W” behind the W.D. Number.

To be honest Bert, I have not looked into it too deeply and always thought that the W/T meant that the vehicle's electrical system had been supressed so that any radios fitted to the vehicle could be operated without any interference.

[Maurice Donckers]

Bert , the chassis number was not factory stamped in the frame , it was only on the ID plate on the dash.
About the collor , they where deliverred in 3 basic collors: dessert sand , service brown , and a brownish olive drab .
If they arrived in partly knock down, and got assembled oin the UK , they would be sprayed in Olive drab with cammo (mostly only the outside ) if you look at period pictures from storage aeria`s you will see they are in the same shade and cammo .
Late arrivals after D-day would be left in olive drab , and mosly stayed in the units uncamouflaged .

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

To be honest Bert, I have not looked into it too deeply and always thought that the W/T meant that the vehicle's electrical system had been supressed so that any radios fitted to the vehicle could be operated without any interference.

It was a generic abbreviation for 'Wireless Transmitting sets' going way back to WW1.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30005728

As Ed pointed out - it appears that in military speak - W/T was also used in a different context: to describe the electrical bonding of the metal components of aircraft and vehicles in order to lessen interference.

Some military vehicles had screened ignition systems , so maybe this was another reason for the W/T marking.

I have seen the following described in many older publications:

R/T = Radio Telephony (voice communication)

W/T = Wireless Telegraphy (CW mode: Morse)

So it depends on whether you say: Toomartow or Toomaytow

[Jordan Baker]

There was also S on many vehicles. This was for a “suppressed” ignition system that would reduce interference with nearby wireless sets.

The W/T was for vehicles with full shielding on the entire electrical system. All the wires would have been in the thinned braided copper wire loom.

[Bert den Brok]

Hello Maurice,
The stamped chassis number could indeed have been applied at a later date. I assume this is an original number. Also because there are various indications that justify the time of manufacture, including the dashboard, the overflow tank, reinforced rear chassis beams and the pattern of the floor plates.
By the way, I also found a stamped chassis number on a CGT that is yet to be restored.

Had decided not to do that for the time being with regard to the cammo painting. If necessary, it is always possible.

The colors inside (behind) were also a mixed bag. The base color was brown with white on top, then a dirty green color and then partly white and partly a light grayish color.
Now the walls and roof inside (behind) have become white. The floor, wheel arches and inside doors are brown like the exterior color. See picture.
What is missing from the photo are the cabinets against the side walls. I don't have enough information about this yet to make them. There is one seat too many, but I did that to possibly get more people on the license plate.

Hello Ed, Mike and Kelly,
Now I can understand why the letters “W/T” were on the vehicle. There was still a copper woven cable in the frame on the driver's side. From the starter motor to the ammeter. There was also a small part of this behind the dashboard. Other cables had to be replaced.
Measured on site and made in advance.
The lettering of the vehicle will still be adjusted with the letters “W/T”.

Thanks for your responses.
Regards, Bert

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Bert,

It was good meeting you and your family again last September.

Here are some before & after photos of your lovely HUW with 30 years in between (found on the internet).