Questions regarding Sherman Fireflies used in NWE

[Randall Burcksen]

Hello,

I'm a model builder and will soon start on a new 1/6th scale kit of Sherman Mk.Ic "Firefly" Hybrid:


http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlus...l_DRA75048.jpg

I want to build this one up as a Canadian version and I have a few questions. Hopefully some knowledgeable members on this forum will be able to answer them for me:

1. Which Canadian units supplied with this type of Firefly took part in liberating Holland?

2. Did Canadian Fireflies carry an anti-aircraft .50 MG on a pedastal mount on the turret roof (or any other MG)? I've browsed the web for pictures of Fireflies but were unable to locate any pictures of MG's mounted on the turrets of Fireslies. I wonder of the AA-mg's were 'sacreficed' to allow more internal storage for ammunition for the 17pdr?

3. What unit and/or identification markings were used on Canadian AFVs?

I welcome any links to on-line resources that will provide more information on Canadian forces involvement with the liberation of Holland.

Thank you very kindly in advance.

Randall

[Ewen B]

Here is a link to the Fort Garry Horse who used the firefly. Their archives should be able to supply you everything you want.

http://www.fortgarryhorse.ca/j1526/i...d=68&Itemid=74

Les Fusiliers de Sherbrooke also used the Sherman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Fus..._de_Sherbrooke

As did the Lord Strathcona Horse (It is still a regular unit with the
Canadian Army)

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehi...attletanks.htm

There are a few Sherman's around the countryside that are used as war memorials but I am not skilled at telling the difference between the different marks. Good luck.

Ewen

[Ewen B]

Here are some picks of a Sherman I just saw at a military display held in Austin, Manitoba. The tank is part of "Ghost Squadron" re-enactment group out of the Winnipeg area. Sorry I don't have a contact number but someone here should have one. I'll add more photos as I come across them. Ewen

[Frank v R]

Hi Ewen, just for your info the Sherman photo you posted is of a M4A2E8 76mm, Canada did not use the E8 during the war, these were purchased in 1946 from the US and came out of the Letterkenny Army Depot, as for units using the Firefly you can add these, Three Rivers Regt, Ontario Regt, BC Dragoons, Lord Strathcona's Horse, The Calgary Regt. ,and the list goes on,

[Bill Alexander]

To come at the answer another way, were not all Canadian armoured regiments "stiffened" with the issue of Firefly Shermans? Not sure of the scale of issue, but eventually all armoured regiments had several Fireflies on their war establishment?

[Jack Geratic]

There should be two Fireflies per troop by this stage of the war.

The .50 cal as an AA mount, was usually not mounted on the turret top. Many considered it awkward, plus there really was no need since the allies had control of the skies.

It would take looking at individual regimental armour histories, but according to this map:


http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/C.../OpSumm-13.jpg

4th Canadian Armoured Brigade
21st Armoured Regiment (The Governor General's Foot Guards)
22nd Armoured Regiment (The Canadian Grenadier Guards)
28th Armoured Regiment (The British Columbia Regiment)

5th Canadian Armoured Brigade
2nd Armoured Regiment (Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians))
5th Armoured Regiment (8th Princess Louise's (New Brunswick) Hussars)
9th Armoured Regiment (The British Columbia Dragoons)

I don't notice the two armoured brigades on the map, but since a regiment was already mentioned above:

1st Canadian Armoured Brigade
11th Armoured Regiment (The Ontario Regiment)
12th Armoured Regiment (Three Rivers Regiment)
14th Armoured Regiment (The Calgary Regiment)

2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade
6th Armoured Regiment (1st Hussars)
10th Armoured Regiment (The Fort Garry Horse)
27th Armoured Regiment (The Sherbrooke Fusiliers Regiment)


http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0...g-Normandy.jpg

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehi...ationsigns.htm

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehi...edbrigades.htm

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/vehi...ticalsigns.htm

regards,
Jack

[Ewen B]

Frank thank you for your expertise. I am assuming this Sherman monument is also the one used later by Canadian's. The 12th Manitoba Dragoons who were an armoured car reg't during the war used the Shermans till they were disbanded in 1964.

[David Herbert]

Originally Posted by Frank v R

Hi Ewen, just for your info the Sherman photo you posted is of a M4A2E8 76mm, Canada did not use the E8 during the war

To be pedantic, it is a M4A2 HVSS 76mm. Nobody used 'E8's other than for testing. They were built in single figures as test vehicles for what became HVSS when it entered production. The 'E' stands for 'experimental'. The widespread use of E8 or easy eight is a complete fiction that has no basis in wartime official literature but seems to have been invented by early authors on WW2 armour and then copied until it became regarded as fact. See Hunnicut's Sherman book for an acurate summery of the designations of the various projects that lead up to HVSS.

It also does not indicate a seperate type. All Sherman types that were still in production when HVSS was released as production standard were redesigned to take it. It is just a late version of whatever type of Sherman, which at that point in development were already "Ultimate Series", a term that covers vehicles with the final version of many features (like big hull hatches, electrical fittings, ammo stowage, transmission housing, glassis plate, etc). The HVSS development just failed to mature before the other Ultimate Series production started, resulting in a significant number of tanks being built with the older VVSS.

Please stop calling them 'E8's, they are not !

David