CMP engine swaps

Keith Webb · #1 29-12-12, 22:19

Ryan's posting of a Fordson 4D engine in this thread has started me thinking about how many different engine types have been seen transplanted into CMPs over the past 70 years.

Here's a list of some I've seen:

Chev 216 into Fords in Burma
Other Chev swaps include the 235, 261, 270 and 292 Mexican engine
Bedford 6 cyl
Ford Falcon 6 cyl
Ford Windsor V8
Ford 21 stud flathead
Ford 8BA flathead
Ford 6 cyl truck engine
Dodge V8
Toyota Land Cruiser 6 cyl
Perkins 4 cyl diesel

There have been other 6 cylinder diesels I couldn't identify.

Who has others to add to this list?

Phil Waterman · #2 29-12-12, 22:40

Hi Keith

Interesting thread idea, and we must not forget that the Rebuild Facility in Egypt was known for putting Ford V8s into almost anything, according to Bill Gregg's Blue Print for Victory. Why we at it has anybody got a photo of a surviving one of these?

Cheers Phil

Tony Smith · #3 30-12-12, 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi Keith

Interesting thread idea, and we must not forget that the Rebuild Facility in Egypt was known for putting Ford V8s into almost anything, according to Bill Gregg's Blue Print for Victory. Why we at it has anybody got a photo of a surviving one of these?

Cheers Phil

Believe it or not, Ford actually distributed a conversion kit! It involved a stamped steel front mounting that replicated the Chev mount, and an adapter on the Ford integral bellhousing that mated to the chev gearbox, eliminating the Chev bellhousing and clutch arrangement. The early ones were cast steel (rarities these days), but were later popularly copied in alloy by Offenhauser, Cragar and others. I think more people should put Ford Flatheads in Chevs, it would make the world a nicer sounding place.

Grant Bowker · #4 30-12-12, 02:48

The Offenhauser adapter from Ford block to Chev transmission shown above is still available, at least at http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ofy-5272 and likely other sources. They seem to be aiming at people who own an early Ford and want to put a more modern Chev bolt pattern transmission behind the flathead. There is also a 5174 part # as well as the 5272, I have no idea which (if any) better fits the Chev transmission in the CMPs.
Has anyone seen a modern source for the front mount plate shown? I'm not in a rush to do it, just curious if the parts are still "off-the-shelf". The next obvious question would be radiator and mountings, then how it would fit in the CMP cab since the Chev doghouse/engine cover was narrower than the Ford when I last measured.

aj.lec · #5 30-12-12, 04:24

Ford Cleveland too
Yes they do fit ...just

Ryan · #6 30-12-12, 05:59

I remember you originally posting that Blitz Andrew. It's awesome. Did you ever go back and talk to the guy?

Richard Farrant · #7 29-12-12, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Who has others to add to this list?

Hi Keith,
I can add two more to your list;

Bedford 200 4-cyl diesel (John Marchant's Chev HUP)
Austin 3.5 litre 6 cyl petrol (in a Cab 11 or 12 Ford)

if I set my mind back others, I have a feeling I've come across a Perkins P6 in one.

Ryan · #8 30-12-12, 00:11

Holden 6 cyl (179 in my case ) into Ford F15 cab 13.

Tony Smith · #9 30-12-12, 01:47

Some other threads on this topic HERE, and HERE.

Hanno Spoelstra · #10 21-01-13, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Some other threads on this topic HERE, and HERE.

And HERE.

H.

Corey Myronuk · #11 28-01-13, 06:17

I'm gearing up to swap a 337 ford 8EQ with a spicer 3053a overdrive trans out of an M35a2 into my F60L with shortened wheelbase.A Gama goat detroit diesel 2 stroke 3-53 is a nice fit also.If it turns out the 337 just wont fit that will be plan "B"

hrpearce · #12 30-12-12, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

if I set my mind back others, I have a feeling I've come across a Perkins P6 in one.

My neighbour has a Ford with a P6 in it.

Richard Farrant · #13 30-12-12, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrpearce

My neighbour has a Ford with a P6 in it.

Hi Robert,
I was not dreaming then! Actually, in the 1950's Perkins produced kits to re-engine a lot of petrol vehicles with the P6, amongst them would be Fords, Austin K2 and K4, Humber cars, Commers, Bedfords and so on. The CMP I was thinking of was a company that made concrete framed farm buildings and they had erection teams equiped mostly with ex-army modified vehicles with jibs on.

Happy New Year to you and the family, see you in March.
regards,
Richard

Tony Wheeler · #14 30-12-12, 18:15

346 Cadillac V8 fitted to F60S, complete with spare motor! Perhaps the pair came out of a Stuart. This would be an excellent conversion but for the nose extension requirement. Superior design to the Ford in that the exhaust ports exit on the correct side.

Tony Wheeler · #15 30-12-12, 20:03

318 V8 with auto trans! Donor vehicle appears to have been a Valiant Regal, possibly VC judging by steering wheel and dash. They even used the radiator!

Mike K · #16 29-01-13, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrpearce

My neighbour has a Ford with a P6 in it.

Has Kevin been playing with his spanners again

hrpearce · #17 29-01-13, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Has Kevin been playing with his spanners again

This one belongs to the neighbour above me, his uncle liked playing with machinery. the bonit on the conversion is two bonets welded together.

motto · #18 30-01-13, 05:46

Yes Mike, this old VMVC member has a clear memory of Berry's dog that night. Also on another occasion whilst setting up camp at the the foot of Tarengower and the dog crapped on the site Ed had selected for his tent. I grabbed the shovel off the back of the Dodge and removed the offending item so Ed could go ahead and use the flat piece of ground of which there was not a lot in that area. Ed put his tent up and the dog came along and peed on it.

The club only had two rules in those days NO DOGS and NO GUNS on club trips. There were those who were of the firm belief that if both rules were broken it would sort itself out.

Dave

Phil Waterman · #19 31-01-13, 04:18

Hi All

Engine change not necessarily for the purest, but there are times when it is the only way to keep the criter on the road.

I've got three CMPs one I've tried to keep as original as possible, because it was basically all there when I was lucky enough to find it. The other two have none original engines. One because the original engine had not been protected from freezing and had frozen and had numerous block cracks.

Yes, I have welded and sealed all the cracks but would it be a reliable engine, probably not so it got a 1952 216cu.in. engine and will be getting a 235 which is ready to go in.

The other had a good running original 216 but to drive it on the road with a truck that weighs in at 11,000 lbs just was to slow to be safe. So it got a 261 which gave it about as get up and go as the 234 in wheel base and 60+ year old brakes can handle, it will out run any WWII vehicle in the club. The original engine has been pulled complete, set up on a test stand ready to run, should I or the next owner ever want to go pure original.

My point in this post is NO ONE SHOULD FEEL DIMINISHED if they need to put a none original engine in to keep the truck on the road.

I applaud Keith for starting this thread to help people explore what will fit and what will work. So I look forward to reading more posts.

Cheers Phil

Tony Wheeler · #20 31-01-13, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

My point in this post is NO ONE SHOULD FEEL DIMINISHED if they need to put a none original engine in to keep the truck on the road.

Personally I prefer to see a few non-original motors in CMPs, provided the vehicle presents outwardly as original. It would be a very boring world if we all did the same thing, and these days there are enough restored CMPs to accommodate a bit of variation/experimentation, particularly in the interests of improved performance.

The other point about engine swaps is that there's a whole spectrum, ranging from highly conservative, eg. later model Chev 6 cyl, to highly radical, eg. Rolls Royce jet engine! (yes, it's been done). Hence we can't generalize about the practice - each conversion must be judged on its merits. Personally I hardly consider a Blue Flame motor to be "non-original", because without driving it I can't perceive any difference. And I even consider the jet-powered CMP to be a worthwhile exercise, purely as a spectacle. I'm only sorry I missed it!

As a purist myself I'll be sticking with the flathead, but I'm glad there are others who push the boundaries in search of performance, because there's always something to be learned from the exercise. For a start, I'm curious to know how fast a CMP can be driven safely!

Darian Carn · #21 31-01-13, 13:07

Hello All,

Yes, Just a wee young lad, so the jingle certainly eludes me. I was still in primary school in "81 !!

Yes it is the same Truck.

I dont have any recent photographs, only when it was loaded on our truck to bring it back to SA in 2007. Not a good picture, I will try to find the photographs from when we were down in Tasmania, there may be a better picture amongst them.

The truck is now in the shed, in the dead vehicles isle, along with a F30 and a C60X. All are in a rather sad state but at least undercover.

Photo of Truck at Corowa in "81 from a post from Mike Kelly back on 28th March 2007.

Regards,

Darian.