2009 at the Hammond Barn

[Bob Carriere]

Couple of questions and observations about the starter.

1. Does yours have the return spring on the linkage that pulls it all the way back when disengaged? Without this spring the starter drive can slide back and hit the ring gear.I installed an avaialble soft throttle spring and it seems to be holding the handle back out of the way.
2. Is the lever hitting anything when the starter is fully engaged? There should be a half to a full inch of travel in the lever once everything is engaged. There is spring on the start drive which allows for over travel and to be sure that the switch has over travel to insure full engagement. With out the over travel you can end up with the switch or drive not engaging fully.Seems most of the problem was in the bent starter backet and the handle...once straightened out they were fine....
3. Watch out for some of the aftermarket switches which do not have over travel spring, in which case the adjustment of the linkage becomes very important.We rebuild an old starter and that one worked but seemed to draw current like an old toaster.........actually the saem switch was used/swapped between the toaster and the good one
4. Dose your starter have a thrust washer at the flywheel end?The old toaster one did not the replacement he installed back in place at the end of Sunday di have the washers.... on a positive note....Rob can now remove and reinstall a starter inless than 30 minutes and that includes swapping the switch.........
5. How many teeth does your starter have 9 or 10 and is this a match for your flywheel?....Never did count the little suckers.... next time it breaksd own and Rob removes it we will count them.... probably in the next two weeks....



Reason I'm asking all of these questions as I have just had to pull the starter out of Beauty, 261 engine with 216 flywheel and ring gear. Reason the starter drive first started making funny noises, and spinning without engaging immediately. Then spinning and not engaging. I'm using the original 6 volt 216 starter which worked fine until recently. From the sounds and poor speed spinning the engine I had suspected that starter was at fault. Beauty is set up with a battery selector switch so I can give the starter 6 volt or 12 volts from the radio battery. With the floor up and the brush band off I could see that the starter was turning but the engine wasn't.

When I removed it and removed the drive unit I discovered that the drive unit, original to the truck 63 years old, which is a one way over ride clutch would no longer lock up completely. New drive ordered. Only difficulty with finding a new one was being sure that it was a 9 tooth to match the original.Phil we have a bunch of old starters.... if you can't find one let us know... we can ship from UPS cheap in upper NY.

If you need pictures of the starter and linkage on another late 45 HUP let me know and I'll take up the floor plate on mine and take pictures.

[Bob Carriere]

Phil

Remember when we first took out my truck we had problems with the transfer case linkages and T case shifter jamming in the jimjam....

Well it did it again......

First of all my truck would not start.... no spark.... new coil seemed very very hot..... may have been fried even though I was using a ballast and bi pass for starting only..... so I gave up and went for the gusto..

I have been planing to convert to an electronic system any ways sooooo ... I have installed a "Pertronix system" on my 261 Chevrolet..... so if any one else is considering take note......

Pertronix instructions are very brief and simple....... installation is very brief and simple..... remove the condenser and points..... remove phenolic block that takes current through the wall of the dizzy.

All the process is reversible.

Install the magnetic pick up using the points pivot post and the screw that previously held the points in place..... pull the triggering wires through the hole left in the side of the dizzy body where you removed the phenolic spacer.

Red wire on positive of the coil ....Black wire on negative of the coil....voila..

Pushdown the ferrite magnet ring over the lobed shaft.... install rotor and cap and fire up.

If you sheet metal is removed or not yet installed it can be done in situ...otherwise it is best to remove the whole dizzy assembly.

WHAT THE PERTRONIX DO NOT TELL YOU.....

You have to set the gap on the magnet and pick up at .028 - .030

Plugs should be regapped at .040 to .045.... to take advantage of the extra voltage...also runs better...
.............................I opted for the conservative .040

Recommend you use the Pertronix 40,000 volts coil which is internal resistor and you will not worry with a ballast.....

Those are not my discoveries but gleaned by reading other peoples' posting on the web and taking advantage of hours of frustrations expereinced by others.....

Engine started right up..... rough idle.... and smoking blue smoke which it had never done before....ran rich but not blue....

Changed the plugs to new AC 45 gapped at .040..... 90% of smoke disappeared...... runs like the devil...... still a slight stumble at idle..... need to tweak the timing......

We actually started the engine with the dizzy mounted loose so that while Grant was cranking the starter I rotated the dizzy until it fired and ran smooth...... real exotic timing process....... re adjusted the carb idel jet screw and tweaked the dizzy by hand to get best smooth idle.

....and clamped it down.

I could not for the love of God see the white mark on the flywheel.... even checked to see if the white paint was still visible...... timing light did not seem to flash bright enough...... may the direct sunlight messed things up so we will do it again inside the shady barn.

So far I am very pleased with the conversion......... will tweak later.

So the running engine was begging for a spin on the road..... remember no lights, no license, no insurance, no fun...... went like a banshee up to fourth gear in low range into the field...... where I had to slow down as it bounced to much...... U turn back on the road I shifted the Tcase from low range to high range....... was doing well in first....smooth crash in second and...... and...... when third gear engaged..... something let go in the transfer case and was left powerless in the middle of the road with Sunday drivers slowing down to look.......

So I let her roll backward onto the shoulder and ditch and screemed for help..... Rotters to the rescue.

We pulled it back to the barn with the tractor...... at first look the Tcase shifting handle was jammed and the t case was in neutral .......

We now understand that the high / low range lever may need adjustment to keep it from popping out.....because when it does pop out it jams the shifter lever and can only be corrected by removing the shiter lever (two bolts) and moving the shifting rods by hand using a very long screw driver.

Now for the headache...... to properly adjust the Tcase hi/lo range rod I will need to remove the floor plates and possibly drop the t case...... the shifting rod is designed so that it must be disconnected and rotated on itself to screw in or out for adjustment..... the linkage is NOT designed to allow disconnecting the shifting rods and do an adjustment in place...... &&%#**@

We will no doubt spend a whole weekend understanding how to do it...do it... and test it.

At this point we have one side of the truck on jack stands which helps us to rotate the drivetrain to facilitate the shifting diagnostics...... we will no doubt verify the 4x4 linkage and winch/PTO while we are deep in this process. The MB-C2 is of some help but cannot overcome the design nightmare of the machine itself.....

All in fun they say ...!

Will keep you posted of our findings.

Any comments/suggestions from other Pertronix user are welcomed

[Bob Carriere]

When you swapped the 261...... why did you stay with the 216 lighter flywheel and smaller clutch when you could have used the existing 261 parts..?

I am using the larger or heavier 261 flywheel as it stores more torque and kept the 11 inch clutch plate that originated with the 5 ton fuel truck.... clutch plate was machined and rebuilt with HD springs...clutch plate relined and grooved for cooling.....

Just curious....

BooB

[RHClarke]

I have some chores to attend to in Southern Ontario. So I will be making a high speed run to the Toronto area soon.

If anyone in Ottawa wants something delivered down south (nothing too large) PM me. If anyone down Toronto way wants something delivered to the Ottawa area, let me know and we will arrange a pick up time and location. Kick in for fuel, and I will deliver the goods to where you want them...

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

If you're in Toronto and either (a) want a break or (b), need a bed, call me. You're welcome anytime, mate...

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

If you're in Toronto and either (a) want a break or (b), need a bed, call me. You're welcome anytime, mate...

I appreciate the offer Geoff, and thank you for it. However, the trip will be down and back as the frau returns from visiting her folks the next day...I want to sneak in another "shopping trip" before the leash gets attached.