2009 at the Hammond Barn

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

...and the untold secret of how Rob can unrim a 60 years old CMP tire in less than five minutes...Boob

Yep. Just run the old gal up to 100kph and the 60 year old rubber will really fly. You will note the high quality of the HUW rims in Bob's shots. That's the real treasure!

[Brian Gough]

Bob, Rob & Grant,

Thanks guys for a fun day in the woods - it was a perfect day for scooping up CMPs. I'm glad you got them home and unloaded without incident. It is a pleasure to watch the three of you work as a team when you are doing recoveries.

I hope Bob and Rob will enjoy these latest additions to their fleets. Barry Churcher and I first "found" them about 1992 when Les Fisher got a Bren Carrier from that location. Despite many follow-up calls and visits, it took until last year before I was able to get ownership of this pair. That's a long time to keep your mouth shut but there are more like this - I'm still trying to secure a 1994 "find". Although the previous owner was somewhat reluctant to sell, it is to his credit he would not allow them to be scrapped despite many opportunities. He is pleased their future is now secure with you - even if only to supply parts for a restoration. Also we owe him our gratitude for going the extra mile to get them out for us.

These 2 vehicles arrived there shortly after the War and worked hard hauling logs etc and never really left the property. Rob, the steering wheel on your new HUW is no longer round because a building collapsed on it in 1962. The HUW sat outside ever since. Bob, your new CMP trailer is better than I thought it was so I hope to see a complete restoration someday soon.

Rob, I think the photo with your son should be candidate for the CMP calendar next year.

Cheers,

Brian

[Bob Carriere]

Picture of the wheel shedding the tire is actually a trailer tire....hihihi

....but as mentioned the HUW rims are in very good condition.

It seems the worst rusted rims we have encountered are usually the trucks that have sat on a farm..... fertilizer..manure..etc.... will rust a flat wheel in a few years..... trucks like the ones above who come from logging areas usually very sandy have minimal rust pitting on the rims..... lucky for us!!!

Boob

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Picture of the wheel shedding the tire is actually a trailer tire....hihihi...but as mentioned the HUW rims are in very good condition...Boob

...Or are you re-tired? Sorry about that one. In any case, and as mentioned ALL the rims on the latest treasures are in great shape. I hope the tires on your Ford are ready for the next multi-load road trip...

[RHClarke]

Sunday was both cool and hot. 4oC at 0800 hrs and 24oC at 1600hrs. Bob spent the morning fiddling with his C15 floor plates. I decided to clean up the 12 outer and 6 inner nuts for the four HUP rims that I had previously refurbished. After a few hours at the wire wheel, I now know the danger template for 15/16 in HUP nuts…one of the darlings worked its way out of the jaws of the vicegrips I was using to hold them to the wheel. Somewhere in the shelves is one shiny nut with a dent in it…
Following that fun, it was time to put “new to me” Michelins on the refurbished rims and then onto the HUP Prototype. The Michelins will remain on the HUP until after restoration.
Prototype’s new shoes:

After lunch, Bob and I took on the removal of the run flat from the split rim mentioned last week. We had to cut the bead cords in order to separate the rubber from the rim. This took some time as the tire was reluctant to give up its hold on the rim. Finally, brute force won the day, but it was a lot of effort only to find a good deal of damage due to corrosion. The rim will be restored at a future date as it came with the Prototype. Interestingly the 1941 stamping is clear as day.
The next step was to further dismantle the Huntsville HUW. Off came the POW can holder, fuel tank protector plates, running boards and supports. With the exception of the POW can holder, the take offs were in pretty good nick. The state of corrosion of the nuts required the use of grinders (when access permitted) and the hammer and chisel. I also know the danger template for 1/2inch nuts…
HUW (soon to be HUP) Fuel Tank Protector Plates


Near the end of the day, Bob’s neighbor Bruce, brought his family and a lady friend by to see what was causing the racket. The young lady fell in love with the HUP and became an instant fan of CMPs. She noted that the HUP looked like a HUMMER…
New CMP Fan:


At the end of the day, we cleaned up and drained a bottle of Keiths each. Some small talk about making a run down south came up. It looks like we will be raiding the Toronto area in early October – Brian G. – make sure you do an inventory…with that out of the way, we locked up the barn and headed home.

[Greg]

Hi Rob,

The HUP is looking good. It is great to see the updates on the CMP fleet in Hammond. I hope all is well.

Cheers,
Greg

[RHClarke]

Aaah! The joys of unemployment. Being a creature of habit, I woke up this morning primed to go to work. With the kid off to school and the wife set to go shopping, I headed to the barn for a few hours of solitude. I decided to clean up the HUW fuel tank protector plates and to dismantle the spare Prototype wheel.
The plates were an easy fix and are now hanging in the barn waiting for the paint to dry. The spare wheel turned out to be easier to dismantle than the run flat – it only took 15 minutes to remove the outer nuts and separate the split rims from the tire – without damaging the tire (which will be used as a “yard tire”).
The interesting thing is that the split rims were held together by 10 nuts and bolts and two studs and bolts. For some reason someone removed the studs – the weld marks are still visible – and replaced them with bolts. Has anyone else found this kind of arrangement on CMP rims?


Upon inspection of the rim, I spotted some stampings. They looked different from the other stampings, so I got out a wire brush was surprised by what I had found.

I think the stamping reads: RF, then DUNLOP O, followed by HA 9.00 – the rest was defaced by corrosion.
I am guessing that RF denotes Run Flat. I am not sure about the “0” after Dunlop, or the HA stamping. I am assuming that 9.00 refers to part of the tire size. Any thoughts?

[Bob Carriere]

Was that rim from the prototype......?

Will need to insert that half rim into the sandblasting cabinet and see if the fine medium can clean the stamping with out damaging the inscription.... then photograph for safe keeping.

Just wondering..... what are the chances the bolt stud arrangement was done by GM during the protopype phase....? Is that the only rim like that?
Are the bolt threads standard size or British Withworth (spelling ?) odd size.

It may be worth cleaning up and saving along with the other one stamped KH 1941 maybe a very early rare 6 bolt KH wheel.

Bob C.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Was that rim from the prototype......?Will need to insert that half rim into the sandblasting cabinet and see if the fine medium can clean the stamping with out damaging the inscription.... then photograph for safe keeping. Just wondering..... what are the chances the bolt stud arrangement was done by GM during the protopype phase....? Is that the only rim like that? Are the bolt threads standard size or British Withworth (spelling ?) odd size. It may be worth cleaning up and saving along with the other one stamped KH 1941 maybe a very early rare 6 bolt KH wheel.
Bob C.

Bob, This was the "spare" I got from Brian Gough with the Prototype. It was not on the truck. As for the thread size - beats me. You may have to get out the thread guages to determine the thread size.

I will sandblast the rim the next time I am out at the barn, and will also photograph the results.

So, what the hell is a KH wheel??

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Bob, This was the "spare" I got from Brian Gough with the Prototype. It was not on the truck. As for the thread size - beats me. You may have to get out the thread guages to determine the thread size.

I will sandblast the rim the next time I am out at the barn, and will also photograph the results.

So, what the hell is a KH wheel??

I admit, my first thought when seeing the bolts was that someone had broken or damaged a couple of adjacent studs and taken the lot out and replaced them with SAE thread bolts (this only really makes sense if the HUP series used the same Whitworth fine thread wheel half joining studs as 15 cwt (and 30 cwt?), 60 cwt are mushroom headed instead of flat headed).

KH = Kelsey-Hayes, maker of wheels and possibly other chassis parts.

[Brian Gough]

Hi Rob,

I think "KH" stands for Kelsey Hayes.

Cheers from the sunny and warm East Coast.

Brian

[Greg]

Hi Rob,

If you are out my way, I have some 16" truck tires that you guys can have for yard tires, I think there may be some tubes as well.
I also have the instrument cluster for Bob as well.

Cheers,
Greg

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Greg

Hi Rob, If you are out my way, I have some 16" truck tires that you guys can have for yard tires, I think there may be some tubes as well. I also have the instrument cluster for Bob as well. Cheers, Greg

Hi Greg, Thanks for the offer. We plan to visit your neck of the woods when the ground at the S&P Museum can support truck traffic. I intend to move my C15 Dump Truck (which is for sale) to Bob's barn. If it does not sell, it will be stripped down for parts.

We will give plenty of notice of the visit so that we can figure where to deposit your engine which I hope is still in the back of the dump. As well, we are on the scrounge for cleaning rags, cover alls etc...

Guy Vapeur is looking for some good modern modular tent centers. He peeks in on this forum every so often and he may PM you with details.

Regards to the family and neighbours! Rob

PS - I updated the first post in this thread...call it a late summer sitrep.

[Bob Carriere]

.....hoping to see you soon.

Bob

[Bob Carriere]

Looking at the RF stamping and playing with contrast adjustment I would say the DUNLOP 0 stands for 0 degrees as opposed to the otherstyle rims which is listed as 5 degrees......... and the flat 0 degree rims is what you have on the HUP.

Comments anyone...?

Boob

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Looking at the RF stamping and playing with contrast adjustment I would say the DUNLOP 0 stands for 0 degrees as opposed to the otherstyle rims which is listed as 5 degrees......... and the flat 0 degree rims is what you have on the HUP. Comments anyone...?
Boob

Maybe the RF stands for "Real Fast"...

[Grant Bowker]

The design record lists two types of 16" rim. One is listed for 9.25x16 (HUP)tires, the other for 9.00x16 and 10.50x16.
Both are DND designs (not K-H), and are listed as having 6 inch width and 10.827 inch mounting bolt circle. (They could be K-H made and DND designed)
The one for 9.25x16 tires weighs 46 pounds per wheel, has a 5 degree rim taper, 1-1/8 inch flange height and 0.5625 inch centerline offset.
The other type for all other CMPs weighs 67 pounds per wheel, has a 1-1/2 degree rim taper, 1-1/2 inch flange height and 0.250 inch centerline offset.
The weight difference seems to be mainly because the HUP rims are made from thinner stock. It is probably possible to mix HUP and "other" CMP wheel halves and have a driveable wheel, but due to the different geometyr of the rim and the different offset I don't hink I want to make the experiment to prove it works or otherwise. My first explanation for the different offset was that the tires were the early equivalent of "wide profile", then i thought again (10.5 is wider than 9.25) (even stranger, the 9.00 cross-country tires had a wider section than the 9.25 ones - I don't understand).

Comments on Bob's theory - anything could be possible on a one-off prototype basis, but would they create a die to mark a one-off rim? Most HUP rims are 5 degree taper, not 0, that's why I think their tires are less evil to remove from the rim.
The only rims listed as Dunlop designed (as opposed to manufactured) are in the 5.00x18 size for 7.00x18 tires which had comparatively narrow .75 inch flange width, 3 degree rim taper and a bolt circle different than all CMPs but closest to the C8's rims for the 9x13 tire.

[Bob Carriere]

They were stamped by hand.... the RF is not even


DUNLOP looks like one stamp the 0 is not lined up and the HA 900 was stamped individually....... my conclusion is one of a kind or very low production.....

The question on my mind is when did they start making 6 bolt rims.... for the HUP or did they exist for earlier C8.....? or are all C8 13 inch rims???

The Prototype rims in question are definitely of lighter gauge steel than any other HUP wheel that Rob has worked on......

Curious!!!!!

Boob

[Brian Gough]

Bob,

The Ford Lynx takes the same 6 bolt 16" rim as the C8A Heavy Utility.

Brian

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Brian

When did the Lynx came into production.....??? The rims Rob took off the Prototype were exceptionaly light weight and flimsy.... I know they were rusted but when we worked on them the center flat section was really flexing like sheet metal........ Surely the Lynx must have been using a thick walled rim in view of the extra weight it carried.

Strange.

After the antique gold discovery in ENgland I bet ROb will be taking the doors skins apart to see if any treasures can't be found.

Home nursing a quasi High - Knee ( H1N1) and feeling like Krap

Buub
..gud a pugg nobe

[RHClarke]

It looks like the weather for the last weekend in September was going to be the shits. Rain and more rain. Reminded me of May-Mid August... Bob and Grant where busy elsewhere, so I had the barn to myself (not including the mosquitoes).

The rim was sandblasted in Bob's blasting cabinet this morning. Nothing new was revealed. I will upload my Blackberry pictures later. A few things were noticed tho': a. the stamping was on the inside half of the split rim. b. the Dunlop stamp was indeed two stampings overlapped. Either a nervous operator or s/he had too many beer at lunch.

The rest of the day was spent cutting the tires from the HUW's front rims and removing the instrument cluster (which is in rough condition). The data plates are in great condition. The rest of the HUW will make its way into Bob's back field for the winter.

After a morning of working in the rain, I called it an early day and headed back to complete some domestic chores...gotta keep on the wife's good side!

[RHClarke]

What do two unemployed bums do in Ottawa on a Friday? Sandblast at the barn! Bob and I decided to take advantage of the "good" weather on Friday to do some work at the barn. Time was of the essence as we also had a Gracie's call that night.

First order of the day was to remove Bob's truck Lettie, from the barn. It took a few trys to get her rolling and the idle sorted out, but she finally rolled out under her own power.

She was running a tad rich:


Bob then blasted a good number of sheet metal panels from his and some donor cab 11s.


We set up a containment "cathedral" and recovered about five bags worth of media of the ten we used. This recovered quartz will be screened twice and pushed through a larger nozzle. It will save some money and we saved a lot of time by having the containment shelter - we just rolled up the tarps and refilled the bags with the sand that landed on the tarps.

I took advantage of the situation to clean up some rims. The aim was to knock off the big deposits of rust etc... in prep for treatment, priming and painting (next week).


Interestingly, we discovered other stampings on the Dunlop rim - Bob will post photos later (his camera has better resolution than my camera).

[RHClarke]

I was sitting around the house stumped with jack to do... So, off to the barn I went. Space around the barn is getting crowded due to the recent influx of CMPs. Winter is on its way, so snow lanes will be needed for Bob to move the mountains of the white stuff that surely will bless us with its presence.

Bob and I decided that the best place to put the Prototype "on ice" was next to the barn adjacent to "Ted's truck". It will be out of the way but easily accessible for the many small over-the-winter projects.

The first step was to remove four stumps. Since Bob was at work with his new job, the tractor was not available to dig them up and haul them out of the ground. With no HE around, all that was left was muscle power. It was a good time to burn off some of the fat I put on while working for the government. Armed with an axe, shovel, pick and come-along, I managed to dig out three of the four on Thursday morning. The fourth and smallest stump can wait until later – sadly, I need to get back into good shape…

The digging took the most time, but once I got a chain around the bottom of the stump, the come-along and farmers jack made easy work of the removal. I can only imagine the effort it took for the pioneers in this country to remove the thousands of stumps to clear the land.





A couple of loads of fill will even out the pad and then we can move the Prototype and shelter.

[RHClarke]

Holiday Monday. The weather was not too good in the morning as winters icy grip has started to sink its claws into this region. It took a few minutes to scrape the ice off the car windshield early Monday morning:



The sun slowly warmed the temp to about 6oC and it was quite pleasant at the barn. With Bob back from visiting the in-laws and Acton, I took advantage of his presence to remove a few more stumps with the tractor, and to move the Prototype to its winter home. After leveling the ground, Bob and I nailed up some boards on which we will mount our shelters. These heavy creosote soaked timbers are ideal for weighing down the shelters.

After the boards were made up, we hauled the HUP Prototype to the new site. In the meanwhile, she was swaddled with tarps and the cover off of my Quebec garage. That should hold her for the rain coming on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday...



Bob spent some time playing "le Cowboy". He got good at stump wrangling:



Failing to pull any stumps with his rope, he headed off to the wood pile to do some more splitting. I ran out of time for the day, so we will move the shelter over the Prototype later this week.

[Bob Carriere]

Sorry for the delay in posting Rob funny looking rim....

... in addition all the rim studs have been broken off at the weld in the back except for the two longer studs..... the mushroom caps weld are clean broken.... no grinding evident...... rim was held together by nuts and bolts.

The markings were not visible until the tire removed and sandblasted....

Enjoy.....

Boob

[RHClarke]

Done! The Prototype's winter shelter has been moved and now sits next to Ted's truck. Thanks to Bob for the help making up the foundation boxes and for the space.



Today was an extremely pleasant day. The mercury hit 12oC - perfect for painting various bits and pieces. Eight 1 gallon POW can holders and half a HUP rim got the treatment today.



I am looking forward to this weekend as another road trip is planned for the retrieval of yet more HUP parts. I figure I have will have enough parts to help restore the Prototype, build most of a 44 HUP version and finish the 45. That being said, I am still interested in other HUP bits and pieces that may be for sale in Ontario/West Quebec...Yeah. I got it bad.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Guys,

great work again and always a pleasure to see pics of your achievements of the week. The POW can holders look the business!

I wanted to ask you about the black primer you use. It might have been mentioned in one of the posts before, but I haven't been able to find it. Is the black stuff, just a basic primer? Or does it have anything fancy to it....an etchprimer? Or a zinc-primer? The reason I ask is because I want to use a black primer for my C8 as well. I am rather fond of a zinc-primer supplied by Motip here in Holland, but that only comes in grey.

Alex

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Hi Guys,...Is the black stuff, just a basic primer? Or does it have anything fancy to it....an etchprimer? Or a zinc-primer? The reason I ask is because I want to use a black primer for my C8 as well. I am rather fond of a zinc-primer supplied by Motip here in Holland, but that only comes in grey. Alex

Hi Alex, I use Tremclad black paint (spray cans and brush on) The product page is at http://www.rustoleum.ca/CBGCategory.asp?cid=15. I use it just to be different (Bob and Grant will nod their heads on that statement). I get great results from this paint, and it readily identifies a painted part as one of my parts. It is more expensive than normal primer, but less expensive than POR products.

[cmperry4]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Hi Mark, Good to hear from you and that the western HUP is progressing. We have been fortunate at the barn in that we recovered three HUP rolling frames and a body with one side door only- all 43-44, so the shock links won't fit the 45. However, if you go to the Vintage Powerwagon site ( http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pd.../16springs.pdf ) you will see some 9 1/4 in downlinks for sale at $15.00 ea. This is where I got mine. As for doors, none of the doors I have are useable, either from rust or abuse or both. But! An opportunity just came up that I am going to investigate. There may be some news in this regard next week.

I still have the upper divider frame for you. Some day I will get out your way, I just don't know when...in the meanwhile, I am looking forward to comparing notes with you on your 45 HUP. Cheers!

P.S.
No luck with your friendly farmer?

I need to check in on MLU more often; I seem to go long spells not doing so, as I am only now finding about that Vintage Powerwagons page, as I scroll back up through the last couple of months posts. I just this week past took two pairs of singled-ended links to a welding shop to have made into a pair of 9 1/4" links - I got them from a local supplier of suspension restoration parts, who managed to come up with 7 out of the 8 I needed, but I only took the 4. Cost me $40 just for the four pieces, no idea what the welder is going to charge me, so $15US is a good deal. If I call him, and he hasn't done them yet, maybe I can get him to make them the 8-inchers, and get the 9 1/4s from powerwagons. Been mostly rounding up engine and radiator related odds and ends and hardware from various sources lately, and expecting my fuel tanks to be done any day now. Still waiting on a piece to be made for the windshield throwouts, too, one the swivel blocks that mounts on the frame, as I only had three.

Haven't been back to that farm since I visited a few years back, haven't heard of any changes there.

Sounds like you've been rounding up some goodies: About that body with the side door - what are you plans for the door?

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by cmperry4

... About that body with the side door - what are your plans for the door?

Good to hear from you Mark. Which part of the throwout mechanism do you need (I'm a picture guy - which explains my extensive Playboy collection...). Door wise, well, I am being cautious until I get all the doors I need for my 44 HUP. I will have more news about doors and other HUP items later next week. We have a road trip planned for Saturday, so you folk in Southern Ontario, don't worry about your daughters - lock up your C15s and HUPs...

Speaking of HUPs...I spent a few hours out at the barn this afternoon to enjoy the sounds of fall, which sounded like spring and summer (rain). I finally got the fuel tank protector plates onto the 45:





I had to convince the rear pax side fender into a position that allowed the mounting of the plate. When I had the fenders repaired, some warping happened.

Tomorrow we pack up the Ford and trailer and head south!