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#31
02-02-11, 21:59
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tires
Hello
The civilian tires were the same as those used on the 5/4 ton at the time, but smaller. B.F.Goodrich Silvertown (something) traction 6.50x 16 lt 6 ply tubeless. Similar ones were/are available from Firestone, Cooper, and Goodyear. I found that they were better traction than the NDT's and our unit had them on our M151A2. These may also be available in 7.50 x 16 sizes but i do not know how this would affect handling and control. Don't think that they are available in 7.00x 16. I remember the ignition toggle switch going missing on the pool vehicles and i use to carry a spare one just in case i was assigned a vehicle missing one. Eric
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Collecting data on the WW2 Canadian jeep and trailer. Serial, WD Numbers etc. 
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#32
03-02-11, 03:27
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As I said earlier, there were some jeeps outfitted with the civilian tires. I even saw a set over at 2VP.
I am pretty sure that once a CO's driver would do a 360 with the CO in the Jeep, the CQ/Maint would be ordered to supply the commercial tires rather than the non-directionals. They were 100 times better on the slippery roads. One only has to look at the tread pattern left on the ground after a jeep rolls by. It is usually only a snake looking mark from the center of the tire. I could especially understand those tires on a M151A2. They were very easy to lose control of. My personal Mutt had them for the decade or so that I owned it.
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#33
03-02-11, 21:16
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GPMG Mount Hole Pattern
Here is a picture of the R/Side with the GPMG Mount holes for the bracket. This jeep came from the Windsor Regt. Next task is to find a mount and a GPMG.
Dave 302Trooper
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#34
03-02-11, 22:42
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Some Differences Between the CDN 2 and 3
Here are some of the differences between the CDN 2 and 3 that Rob and the others have mentioned. It may me feel like I am back in TQ3 AFV Rec classes with these tiny but important differences.
Dave
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#35
03-02-11, 23:09
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Nice set of photos. We should start a thread showing just the differences between the two models.
Your photos show the original turn signal relay box on the Cdn2. There were very few of those left around this neck of the woods, having all been changed over to the solid state units.
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#36
04-02-11, 01:00
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Does anyone have access to or info regarding the proper camo scheme and colours as well as tac marks for mid 70's to early 80's Canadian MVs?
Specifically interested to know about mine as research has indicated a history with 1 Hussars, which is/was armd recce.... I did see a pic from their website which showed a M38A1 in service with gpmg mount, antenna mount and wire cutter. The only marking I could ascertain was the coloured CDN flag sticker on the rear bumperette. Was wondering if stencil cut black spray painted CDN flags were used or appropriate??? Please tell me about the dash mounted blue extinguisher and details of the antenna mount and appropriate items.
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV 1957 Triumph TRW 500cc RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers
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#37
04-02-11, 01:26
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Ask and you shall receive:
  Here is a side view of my jeep showing the cam pattern.   The black stencilled cdn flag was often used. It was not by the book mind you. It was usually because nobody bothered to order the flags. As well, you ended up having to cam up any color decals when you went to the field, so the red flags would just add two more things you had to tend to. I tried to install the flags on my MLVW when I was with the artillery, but my MWO would not approve of it. The extinguisher was a 5 lb Ansul brand dry chem extinguisher. In the 70s you could find them in red or blue. By the 80s only the blue ones remained. There was a mod to switch the extinguisher's location with the SMG C1. A search on this forum should find you a copy...I believe Derk Derin posted it in the last year. Antenna mounts were on top of the spare tire carrier thru most of the 70s. By 1980, most were changed over to the corner mount. The top mount put a lot of stress on the back wall of the jeep. Prior to 1980, your militia Jeep would have had the C42, after that date they went to the 524 set. Once it made it to Borden, it likely had no radios.
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#38
04-02-11, 01:26
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Quote:
If Rob Love is nice enough, he might post up some snaps of his 38A1, as its text book 3 Color Cam. Its going to be the basis for my Cam Pattern although i'm going to (admittedly wrong) invert the locations of the Light Green and Olive Drab on my 151 as most of the 151s ive seen seem to have more Light Green and less OD (if any OD at all). As for the flags, i've seen examples of both. I must admit, personally prefer the Color Decal. It typifies the era IMO. Besides, it will lessen people asking if my rig is American  The blacked out painted Flag is more of a current era marking. I managed to find the correct Decals on EBay, so I grabbed a pair for a princely sum of $4 shipped.
Last edited by Scott Bentley; 04-02-11 at 01:32.
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#39
04-02-11, 01:27
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Apparently Rob posted 10 seconds before I did
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#40
04-02-11, 01:41
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#41
04-02-11, 01:43
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#42
04-02-11, 01:51
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If you are ordering, then you will also want some of the 7690-21-102-0000
"DANGER Pressurized cooling system" decals. I am unsure if that will still be a valid number. I used to order them in back in the 90s.
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#43
04-02-11, 01:55
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Quote:
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#44
04-02-11, 02:07
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Thanks for the great info guys!
I must admit, I have run the gammut in mvs and always figured I would never go with the modern stuff (40 years modern). How things change... Great to have a couple knowledgeable fellows here who have dealt with this in the recent past. Rob, what did you use for paint on your 3 colour camo? Also, do you have details of both the corner mount and spare tire mounted antenna mounts?
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV 1957 Triumph TRW 500cc RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers
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#45
04-02-11, 02:27
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#46
04-02-11, 02:33
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Quote:
I use tremclad flat black for the black. I still had some of the flat green, and I kind of mixed some Gillespie paints to make the olive drab. I believe it was a combination of 34080 with some 34087 mixed in. I will be replicating the paint again this spring, so I'll get a better description of the formula. I always liked the tremclad black. It was tough, and you could buy it anywhere. Unfortunately, they have changed their formulas this past summer to a water based paint, which does not lend itself well to spraying. Essentially any flat black will do. The military stuff turned gray after a couple of years. It has been suggested to me that 34094 would be a suitable replacement for the flat green. If you check some of my old for sale ads, there were photos of both the corner mount and the spare tire antenna mount. I seem to have exhausted my source for the corner mounts, but I do have some of the spare tire mounted brackets available if there are none in your area. On the photos of my jeep you can just see the rear corner antenna mount.
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#47
04-02-11, 03:40
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In my case I went/going with the following for the 3 Color Cam Pattern:
503-322 "Field/Pea Green" = Tempo 34094 "383" Green 503-321 "Flat Olive Drab" = Gillespie 34087 "Khaki" Olive Drab 512-301 "Flat Black" = Tremclad Flat Black (in Spray Bombs) I also used Gillespie 24087 Semi-Gloss Olive Drab for my Engine Compartment etc, as this was the original base coat that the M38A1 and M151A2 were delivered with. My M38A1 CDN2 was still Semi-Gloss OD in the Interior and the Engine Compartment, with the 3 Color Cam Pattern painted over the Semi-Gloss OD on the Exterior surfaces. All 3 of the M151A2s that i've had were base coated over the Semi-Gloss Olive Drab with either the 503-322 Field Green or 503-321 Flat OD inside and out, and then had the Black and the other Green/OD added to make the Cam Pattern. Only the Engine Compartments were still Semi-Gloss OD. One was sprayed with Red Primer over the Semi-Gloss OD prior to the Cam being added. The other two were brushed right over the Semi-Gloss OD... (horrible). Paint is a major source of frustration when dealing with the 3 Color Cam Pattern. It gets beat around on here quite often. In my case, I gave up looking for the holy grail of perfection and went with the 90% solution. I have collected literally hundreds of color photos of the pattern, have a parking lot full of vehicles at work that still have it, as well as have a can of each of the original paints. The problem is as stated in other posts was the manufacturers subtle differences, condition of the paint itself (old, frozen at some point etc), how it was applied (brushed, rolled, sprayed, cut with gasoline, thinner, varsol) and how the vehicle was stored. There was clearly two (slightly different) versions of the 503-322 Field Green floating around at some point. It seems out east it was more "Pea Green" than out west where it was a bit darker Green, closer to the Flat OD. In my case, the 383 Green was darned close to the "East Pea Green" 503-322 Field Green, so I went with it. Honestly, in the right light, you'd be splitting hairs to tell the difference. Again, that is the Tempo version of 383. With Gillespie, Sherwin Williams or PPG it could very well turn out different. EDIT: Picture added. I like this one as its the only photo I have that really captures the "true color" of the 383 Green. Thee rest of the pics I have don't look right with artificial light. If you look really hard at the scrap MUTT on the right, there is some original 503-322 Field Green showing on the Inner-Fender above the rear Wheel. Its a long shot, but believe me when I say its damn close:  One of these days when its slow at work, i'm going to take a few recently procured vehicles (LUVW, MSVS, Milcot, LAV III and a Refurbished Bison) and park them all side by side and take a photo. Although they are all "CARC Green", none of them are exactly the same. If we can't get it right now, I sleep well knowing that it was imperfect back then as well Thats my Nickle on Paint
Last edited by Scott Bentley; 04-02-11 at 03:55.
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#48
04-02-11, 20:02
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Rob, I noticed that your jeep has rectangular mirror heads, are these milspec?
My jeep as purchased also has them, I figured they were aftermarket add ons as I know the original round ones have limited viz....
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV 1957 Triumph TRW 500cc RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers
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#49
04-02-11, 21:06
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All we got were rectangular mirrors in the 80s. I guess it was an upgrade in the military over the small round ones. Most of the ones I remembered getting were in Chrysler marked boxes. The problem with these was that there was only a rubber outer that held the mirror glass onto the metal back. The glass would fall out if the jeep was run through light bush, or even hitting a decent pothole. We used to glue the glass to the metal with contact cement. I am pretty sure we helped Chrysler on to it's first bankruptcy, because without the glue we would have gone through a lot more mirrors.
There was a mod towards the latter life of the jeeps (both the M38A1s and the M151A2s) to relocate the mirrors to the front fenders, with a second mirror arm added for stability. We would add a third arm to this to make it more stable, especially on the M151A2s, otherwise the mirror shook so bad on idle you couldn't see out of it. As well, both fleets of vehicle's fenders were prone to cracking with only the pair of arms. Most collectors relocate them back to the windshield hinges where they were originally. We can get away with this because most collectors do not drive theirs daily with the tarp and doors, which led to the visibility problem.
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#50
04-02-11, 21:43
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License Plate location
Rob, My jeep has the license plate mounting holes in the same location as the Manitoba jeep high on the grill. The CFP camo shows the plate on the bumper. CV 32 does not show any plates in the photos nor does the CDN 2 users manual.Which is the proper location? I have seen a few different ideas. My jerry can brackets both have a poorly welded bracket for the rear plate. Any ideas. I have attached a photo from Pet showing the base museum jeep.
Dave
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#51
04-02-11, 22:04
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The front license plate should be on the right bumper, as shown in your photo. It was an excersize in futility trying to keep them there, especially on the recce jeeps which constantly went through the bush. The movement to the upper location on the grille was unofficial, but routinely done. Wile it would restrict airflow somewhat, I have never noticed a problem with it even on the hottest days. Best thing is the plate is not subject to damage there.
The original front bracket hung down, with the plate then mounted upwards. The rear plate bracket was supposed to be under the back edge of the jerry can bracket. There was a modification (C30-100-000CF006) which made a slight change to it so it would not interfere with the gas can strap. The plate was reasonably protected in that location, although would be damaged when push starting. When the bracket got damages, usually it would just be omitted and the plate mounted directly onto the bracket with the bolts pointing out. When you refer to the CFP camo, are you referring to the cam instructions I posted above? Note that the jeep they use is a M38, so things are a bit different. The M151A2 had the license plate inthis location as well, but it was moved when the wire cutter was installed.
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#52
05-02-11, 00:01
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Rob, my front bumper has a slot in it on the RH side (front). Does this jive with whats correct for the plate?
__________________
3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV 1957 Triumph TRW 500cc RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers
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#53
05-02-11, 00:48
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#54
05-02-11, 01:06
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During the big refurb program on the Jeeps, they were using civilian pattern fenders with the recess for the front marker lights. There just weren't repros being made at that time. So it's possible that a civilian bumper was acquired, but I recall mil quip (I believe it was automobiles rene gagnon back then) was making parts like this for the military. Gas tanks were another thing that was impossible to buy NOS back then. Canada would have a couple hundred at a time made. They were never a perfect fit, but we were one of the last armys in the world using the M38A1s, so parts sourcing was difficult and costly. Colog had quit carrying Willys parts by then.
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#55
05-02-11, 19:22
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Seeking Ansul extingusiher for my jeep. Is this the 5# type?
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV 1957 Triumph TRW 500cc RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers
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#56
05-02-11, 20:03
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Hi Chris
When I was at Big Bad Bob's Barbeque last year I took this photo of an extinguisher mounted in an M38A1. According to the owner, some real old guy named Jon,  this is the correct unit. Hope this helps.Barry
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Every twenty minute job is one broken bolt away from a three day ordeal.
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#57
06-02-11, 04:26
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extinguishers
The correct extinguisher looks like that, but the grab handle is a bit different. (Forgive me but I'm having an episode of Gulf War Syndrome and can't remember squat) - a local surplus dealer near Gunner Mike's place sometimes finds them in the surplus lots.
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Terry Warner - 74-????? M151A2 - 70-08876 M38A1 - 53-71233 M100CDN trailer Beware! The Green Disease walks among us!
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#59
06-02-11, 06:00
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Quote:
Mike
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Mike Baker Comox, BC
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#60
06-02-11, 14:38
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Ansul Blue
Quote:
The Ansul blue fire extinguisher had a bigger brother..Bob Carrier has the next size up from the one shown..It is dry chem with a nitrogen cartridge that is pierced when the pin is removed and the handle slammed down which charges the extinguisher..The content tend to lump and compress so should be turned upside down and hit with a rubber hammer to loosen up the contents.. Bob may be able to post a picture.. It is a military 25 pounders used on Canadian Air Force runway crash trucks.. This one fell off one that I was following across the grassy area of the runway.. in Edmonton..and I stopped and picked it up but they didn't want it back so it stayed with me from '76 til I donated it to the barn boys to protect them from Lucifer... In a pinch.. It is identical but bigger than the one shown.    
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Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk:
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