Chevrolet 1533X2 30-cwt trucks

[Tony R]

Many thanks, Kuno.

That windshield on the 1533X2 does look very, very similar to an open cab GMC, complete with folding mechanism and upstand on the cowl. The LRDG trucks do seem to have a piece of wood fixed to the top of the cowl, any idea why?

Big thanks to all who post.

[Kuno]

Once aware about this windshield, I found several photos of LRDG trucks having a complete windshield and not only those quite useles "aero screens".

[Piet van Hees]

I consider myself very lucky that a good friend made me aware of this thread. Man what an Aladins cave in information!
While studying all info I have on the 1941 Chevy's to convert a 1:35th scale LRDG to a closed cab, and an LRDG one to "Egyptian standard production" I noticed different lights. I found one picture of an LRDG that has the top light on the headlights, and a today desert shot of a a frontpiece (fenders and grille) that has the same. Al surviving 1941-1947 civvy chevy's (let's call them "art-deco" chevy's) from pick-up's to 6wheelers have this light. All LRDG except the ones I mentioned have not.
I read it's a production difference from 1942 production on. It could have been that they where stripped for weight though. Anyone any ideas?

(Bye the way that closed cab Chevy you want to convert to LRDG is original AND rare. If you convert it it wil be one of several LRDG that are not original. There are at least 2 fake - LRDG 1941 Chevy's as far as I can see from pictures. It would be an absolute waist of a marvelous truck....)

[Piet van Hees]

I uploaded a set of foto's showing a LRDG with a full front window, an Indian 30cwt and a 3 ton with closed cab.
The 30 CWT gets clear half moon windows and a full canvas. It's bench should have been 2 single seat's but I like the texture on the bench.
The info in this post helped a lot. If ever anyone can share info on the little lights on the headlights, Yes please!

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's some park light pix.

[Igor Shadrin]

Hi everyone! (my first post)
I am scratchbuilding this truck in 1/43 scale, and have some questions about frame dimensions.
According to the dealer’s handbook, for the US-produced commercial truck, the frame maximum width is 36”, getting narrower at the cab section, down to 25 7/16” at the forward point. I scaled down these dimensions, and finally got a construction, looking not the same as well-known 1/35 kit by Tamiya. Upscaling the tamiya kit frame, we have these dimensions like 37,7” and 34,5”…
The visual difference can be seen at my picture.
Due to the lack of information, I have to use the Tamiya kit as 3D drawings, and, already discovered some mistakes, like the spare wheel is not placed in its originally position, in the aft left platform corner, due to omitted cutout in the aft left wheel housing. Due to this mistake, none of built kits I’ve seen, have the rightly positioned spare wheel. But, in general, this is a great kit.

My question is, whether the frame had any visible modifications (e.g., extended width) to meet some military requirements, for Canadian built machines?

Another question is about fenders size and shape. They are a bit shorter, and also look wider, than for the commercial model, for the wider tires use, I suppose. Could anyone confirm my idea? And, how much in mm, or inches, was this difference?

Also, the engine hood is looking a bit wider at the firewall station, or am I wrong?

Appreciate for any picture of the chassis, and maybe a factory drawings… I would buy, if they could be sold.

By the way, many thanks for valuable photos and information in this thread!!!

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Igor Shadrin

Hi everyone! (my first post)
I am scratchbuilding this truck in 1/43 scale, and have some questions about frame dimensions.
According to the dealer’s handbook, for the US-produced commercial truck, the frame maximum width is 36”, getting narrower at the cab section, down to 25 7/16” at the forward point. I scaled down these dimensions, and finally got a construction, looking not the same as well-known 1/35 kit by Tamiya. Upscaling the tamiya kit frame, we have these dimensions like 37,7” and 34,5”…
The visual difference can be seen at my picture.
Due to the lack of information, I have to use the Tamiya kit as 3D drawings, and, already discovered some mistakes, like the spare wheel is not placed in its originally position, in the aft left platform corner, due to omitted cutout in the aft left wheel housing. Due to this mistake, none of built kits I’ve seen, have the rightly positioned spare wheel. But, in general, this is a great kit.

My question is, whether the frame had any visible modifications (e.g., extended width) to meet some military requirements, for Canadian built machines?

Another question is about fenders size and shape. They are a bit shorter, and also look wider, than for the commercial model, for the wider tires use, I suppose. Could anyone confirm my idea? And, how much in mm, or inches, was this difference?

Also, the engine hood is looking a bit wider at the firewall station, or am I wrong?

Appreciate for any picture of the chassis, and maybe a factory drawings… I would buy, if they could be sold.

By the way, many thanks for valuable photos and information in this thread!!!

Now I assume your questions relate mainly to the differences between the Tamiya kit and the real vehicle. Your #1 mistake is to use the Tamiya kit as the thing to scale down from as it is not correct to scale having some major incorrections in the chassis and in the front sheetmetal. The cowl/firewall/bonnet is too wide as well.

My question is, whether the frame had any visible modifications (e.g., extended width) to meet some military requirements, for Canadian built machines?

The chassis had the same dimensions as the standard commercial chassis.

Hope this helps

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

One LRDG replica was produced by sacrificing a rebuilt 1939 Chevy...plus a Canadian military '42 pattern thatg was ex-Showman's. However, and thius is wherte I start crying, it was the last surviving '39 normal-control Chevrolet built in the Southampton Plant. There is now just a '39 COE and a sedan, if it is still extant in Italy to where it was sold, surviving from local production.

Sorry..got to go to cry me eyes out!

Oh...didn't the '41 and '42-46 trucks have different sidelight locations? The '39 and '40 trucks had different lights as well as the different grille that looks at first sight to be the same.

[Igor Shadrin]

Thanks, Cliff, any information is appreciate.
Was the fenders width extended, to compare with the civil model?

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Igor Shadrin

Thanks, Cliff, any information is appreciate.
Was the fenders width extended, to compare with the civil model?

The fenders were cut out to give the larger sand tyres more room.

If you got to here http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/MrRoo_2006/ you will see some of my models including some adaptions of the Tamiya Chev kit in 'sub albums on the Right Hand Side along with a few oddball CMP models. You will see how the guards are cut out there.

[Gordons]

Here a pic of a 1533 cowl

[cletrac (RIP)]

On the civvy trucks the one tons and smaller had the fenders with the small wheel openings. The ton and a half trucks had either the small or large openings. The two tons and larger had the large openings. The military trucks likely all used the large openings to clear the military tires. The military wheels were offset more than the civvy ones so gave a wider track.
The 40 and 41 trucks had the narrower grille with the headlights mounted beside the radiator. The 42 and newer trucks had the headlights mounted on top of the fenders.
All the trucks from half ton on up used the same frame dimensions from under the cab to the front bumper. So did the C8 and C15 two wheel drives. The heavier trucks used thicker material in the frame and some had doubling plates on the outside of the frame rails.

[Igor Shadrin]

Originally Posted by cliff

The fenders were cut out to give the larger sand tyres more room.

If you got to here http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/MrRoo_2006/ you will see some of my models including some adaptions of the Tamiya Chev kit in 'sub albums on the Right Hand Side along with a few oddball CMP models. You will see how the guards are cut out there.

WOW, Thanks a lot for many pics to study!
I scratchbuilt chevy and Timken rear axles, too, for 1/43 projects.

Here, part of my 1/43 military diecast collection, including the chevy building:
http://rcforum.ru/album.php?u=25356

I studied the available pictures of the LRDG trucks, but they not seem to have too big wheel openings, as seen on some other similar chevy trucks. The LRDG fenders look modified: shorter and wider, like seen at the first picture attached - the side steps shape indicates the oversized fenders, to compare to civil models, although this is not exactly LRDG, but at the second picture, the similar truck is described as 1533x2… is this correct description? Very interested, the total width of these fenders.

[Igor Shadrin]

Originally Posted by cletrac

On the civvy trucks the one tons and smaller had the fenders with the small wheel openings. The ton and a half trucks had either the small or large openings. The two tons and larger had the large openings. The military trucks likely all used the large openings to clear the military tires. The military wheels were offset more than the civvy ones so gave a wider track.
The 40 and 41 trucks had the narrower grille with the headlights mounted beside the radiator. The 42 and newer trucks had the headlights mounted on top of the fenders.

Yes, I see, about the wheels openings, there is no question.

I am not sure about Canadian built, but the US commercial range had the new waterfall grill design, with new headlights position, since 1941. As for the truck with the popped headlights in the previous post, I have no information at all.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Igor Shadrin

Yes, I see, about the wheels openings, there is no question.

I am not sure about Canadian built, but the US commercial range had the new waterfall grill design, with new headlights position, since 1941.

The Candian production had the same grill as the US one.

As for the truck with the popped headlights in the previous post, I have no information at all.

You will find the headlights have been replaced probably at the time the roof was removed from the closed cab body.

[Igor Shadrin]

Originally Posted by cliff

the headlights have been replaced probably at the time the roof was removed from the closed cab body.

Not particularly
The same wrecked chevy.

[Kuno]

Originally Posted by Igor Shadrin

WOW, Thanks a lot for many pics to study!
I scratchbuilt chevy and Timken rear axles, too, for 1/43 projects.

Here, part of my 1/43 military diecast collection, including the chevy building:
http://rcforum.ru/album.php?u=25356

I studied the available pictures of the LRDG trucks, but they not seem to have too big wheel openings, as seen on some other similar chevy trucks. The LRDG fenders look modified: shorter and wider, like seen at the first picture attached - the side steps shape indicates the oversized fenders, to compare to civil models, although this is not exactly LRDG, but at the second picture, the similar truck is described as 1533x2… is this correct description? Very interested, the total width of these fenders.

Hi Igor:

The Chevrolet wreck lying in the desert of Egypt was most probably used by the SDF (Sudan Defence Force) but it is not an LRDG truck.

The other Chevrolet shown on your B/W photos was originally used by the Free French. The caption is totally wrong.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I'm pretty sure the fenders are all the same basic stamping with different size wheel cutouts. The military fenders look wider because the front bumper is mounted several inches higher than the civvy ones. If you compare the fender width to the number of grille bars they're all the same.

[Igor Shadrin]

Originally Posted by cletrac

I'm pretty sure the fenders are all the same basic stamping with different size wheel cutouts. The military fenders look wider because the front bumper is mounted several inches higher than the civvy ones. If you compare the fender width to the number of grille bars they're all the same.

David, thanks, I will keep with this point about the width (it is 72 9/6”, for the whole ’41 US built commercial range, acc. to the dealers book).
Although, if to compare the two pics, it is still not clear, even considering the different camera angles.
The side profiles show the significant difference in the aft end location, between LRDG pattern (fwd from the door cut), and the whole commercial range, which had all the same fenders, from pickup to heavy duty trucks.

[Igor Shadrin]

Originally Posted by Kuno

Hi Igor:

The Chevrolet wreck lying in the desert of Egypt was most probably used by the SDF (Sudan Defence Force) but it is not an LRDG truck.

The other Chevrolet shown on your B/W photos was originally used by the Free French. The caption is totally wrong.

Hi Kuno,
Many thanks for the important notes!!! Appreciate any information.

[Kuno]

Igor; the fenders of the trucks used by the LRDG and as well those used by the Free French were widened by approx. 11 cm to accommodate the sand tires. They cut the fenders in the longitudinal direction and added a stripe of sheet metal then.

I have measured it myself at te fender of an LRDG Chevy 30cwt WA at 'Jebel Sherif' and I have seen the same "widenings" at a French wreck and also at the SDF wreck in the Egyptian desert (the one you have presented above).

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Kuno

Igor; the fenders of the trucks used by the LRDG and as well those used by the Free French were widened by approx. 11 cm to accommodate the sand tires. They cut the fenders in the longitudinal direction and added a stripe of sheet metal then.

I have measured it myself at the fender of an LRDG Chevy 30cwt WA at 'Jebel Sherif' and I have seen the same "widenings" at a French wreck and also at the SDF wreck in the Egyptian desert (the one you have presented above).

They were widened by 4in (104mm), and it was a factory modification for use with 10.50 wide tyres (on 16", 18" or 20" rims) as per the WD specification, not as your post suggests modified by the troops themselves. I attach two Ford Canada factory pics of a regular C21T cab for 7.50-20 tyres, and an MCP cab, and 2 GM Canada pics of the standard guards for 7.50-20 tyres and the guards for 10.50 tyres.

The spacers to widen the guards are one of the ID hallmarks of an MCP truck.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Igor Shadrin

The side profiles show the significant difference in the aft end location, between LRDG pattern (fwd from the door cut), and the whole commercial range, which had all the same fenders, from pickup to heavy duty trucks.

the door on the closed cab was angled on the hinge side as was the cowl of the closed cab to suit the door. The other LRDG Chev Truck is a 'flat' faced cowl and the area where the door hinges would normally be is straight up and down so this is why the guard ends further forward. The dash was completely different between the Flat Face cowl and closed cab as well.

[Kuno]

@ Tony: I actually did not want to suggest that the widening was done by the troops - but I presumed that it was done in local (Egyptian) workshops for the early Chevrolet WA used by the LRDG. So; this was wrong as well - many thanks for that clarification.

[Igor Shadrin]

Originally Posted by Kuno

Igor; the fenders of the trucks used by the LRDG and as well those used by the Free French were widened by approx. 11 cm to accommodate the sand tires. They cut the fenders in the longitudinal direction and added a stripe of sheet metal then.

I have measured it myself at te fender of an LRDG Chevy 30cwt WA at 'Jebel Sherif' and I have seen the same "widenings" at a French wreck and also at the SDF wreck in the Egyptian desert (the one you have presented above).

Kuno, thanks a lot! Now it is clear, the fenders were modified.
10" - were for each side, or totally?

Wish to see these wreckages... Are they too far from any local cities?

[Igor Shadrin]

Originally Posted by cliff

the door on the closed cab was angled on the hinge side as was the cowl of the closed cab to suit the door. The other LRDG Chev Truck is a 'flat' faced cowl and the area where the door hinges would normally be is straight up and down so this is why the guard ends further forward. The dash was completely different between the Flat Face cowl and closed cab as well.

Just today, finally, I cleared the mystery, why fenders do look shorter
Yes, they are the same length, but... higher, or deeper. I outlined the most convenient picture, from the IWM, and mirrored it for more usual direction, and copied the outlined results on another pics. All the same!:

[Igor Shadrin]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

They were widened by 4in (104mm), and it was a factory modification for use with 10.50 wide tyres (on 16", 18" or 20" rims) as per the WD specification,
The spacers to widen the guards are one of the ID hallmarks of an MCP truck.

Tony, thanks for detailed description and nice illustrations!

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Igor Shadrin

I outlined the most convenient picture, from the IWM, ...

While undoubtably the wheel openings are larger, I think the stampings used on the guards are also different. Compare the slope of the front of the guard under the headlight, and also the slope at the very rear of the guard:

[Kuno]

Originally Posted by Igor Shadrin

10" - were for each side, or totally?

Igor, centimeters - not inch. 10,4cm each side.

[Igor Shadrin]

Originally Posted by Kuno

Igor, centimeters - not inch. 10,4cm each side.

Kuno, yes, my fault
The total width by fenders is seems to be 80 9/6".