FGT project

[Mike K]

What became of the FGT 8/9 I found at Whittlesea , Terry Halls place?

The chassis was very rough , but it had a few bits on it . I think the ammo box was still on the passengers side dash .

Mike

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

What became of the FGT 8/9 I found at Whittlesea , Terry Halls place?

The chassis was very rough , but it had a few bits on it . I think the ammo box was still on the passengers side dash .

Mike

It was a No9 and the steps are on Euan's CGT9 now. ARN was 133172.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

What became of the FGT 8/9 I found at Whittlesea , Terry Halls place? Mike

Yes I've been wanting to chase this one up for a while. Do we know where it's at currently? I'd like to rescue what's left of it and reincarnate ARN 133172. There are too few FGT 9s on the planet to let the scrappies get any more!

[Mike K]

Hi

Terry might still have it in his yard ..maybe . I might have his ph. number somewhere .

The chassis was pretty stuffed , plated and broken . The body has been chopped off and only the cowl is remaining . It had a very hard life somewhere e.g., logging . Mike

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Terry might still have it in his yard ..maybe . I might have his ph. number somewhere

Thanks Mike, that would be great if you have his number. Otherwise if you can let me know where his yard is I can go and see him.

I've seen the pics on Keith's website taken several years ago and it was pretty rough as you say. Nevertheless I'd still like to rescue what's left and transfer it onto a spare F15A chassis as my FGT 9 replica project, preserving the ARN provenance. That way I can preserve the No.8 provenance of the other 3 FGTs.

[Ryan]

Hi Tony, following your new threads with pleasure. The old photos are great. How many FGTs were made in the first place? And what's an easy givaway to an FGT chassis when the body is gone?
regards
ryan

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Hi Tony, following your new threads with pleasure. The old photos are great. How many FGTs were made in the first place? And what's an easy givaway to an FGT chassis when the body is gone?
regards
ryan

Hi Ryan, glad to hear you're enjoying the threads. Photo's are courtesy of Keith who has thankfully kept all his old negs.

On the question of FGT numbers built we have it again from the oracle, who tells us that for No.8 pattern tractors: "Approximately 200 of these were built by Holden and Ford in 1942", and for No.9 pattern tractors: "approximately 98 Fords but only two Chevrolet No9 were delivered. About 45 bodies were built but disposed of after the war."

http://www.oldcmp.net/refat8.html
http://www.oldcmp.net/ref9a.html

The 45 bodies were all Chevs I believe, of which all but a handful were scrapped directly from Holden. Euan's is one of the few survivors, having been recovered from Hughes' yard in the late 70's and mated with a C15A chassis for restoration.

It would be fascinating to know the military history of these gun tractors. Quite a few saw action in New Guinea, and later in Korea I believe. Many were retained until the mid 60's, having given 20+ years of service in peacetime.

Sadly very few survived intact once fallen into commercial hands. Unlike sigvans which as 2 seaters made useful delivery vans, gun tractors were valued more for the winch, with most having the body chopped off soon after disposal, to be converted into compact and highly manoeuverable crane trucks. Typically the chop was performed at the B pillar, although a few like Keith's were chopped behind the C pillar. As crane trucks of course, the chassis was often heavily plated, and cropped at the rear for improved clearance, losing the rear fairleads in the process.

The chassis remains quite recognizable however, as these were the only SWB CMPs to be fitted with a winch. First clue of course is the winch itself, or if it's been removed, evidence of its former presence, in the form of winch mountings, and/or fairleads front or rear. Of course, quite a few turn out to be retrofits - evidenced by non-standard winch crossmember and/or side bearing mount plates.

The biggest giveaway on a FGT chassis is the double rear crossmember - a second crossmember, identical to the standard Ford rear crossmember, but facing backwards, was riveted just forward of the rearmost one, and connected to it with riveted plates. The set up can be seen in the attached pic, and being forward of the rear spring hangers, it survives on even the most severely cropped chassis like this one.

Another initial clue is the brake booster linkage - gun tractors were the only SWB variants to be fitted with a brake booster. The retrofit caveat applies of course, but not very likely.

Interestingly, while all cab 13 gun tractors were designed with heavy steering ends and steering box, Australian gun tractors were all fitted with light steering ends and box, due to not receiving the heavier components here until later in the war. Axle assemblies differed from F15A however, in having the lower ratio diff, as supplied for 3 tonner CMPs, for use with 20" wheels.

CGT chassis may be more difficult to identify - I'm not sure what the rear chassis treatment was, and I believe all 4x4 Chevs were fitted with a winch crossmember anyway, as an integral part of the chassis design. Chev experts here may be able to provide more info.

Being of such limited production and low survival rate post-disposal, I'm keen to rescue as many of these uniquely Australian CMP variants as possible. Even the most tragic of chassis remains can be reincarnated in some form, by donating aforementioned parts to a spare F15A chassis, and ideally contributing an ARN serial, to preserve the gun tractor provenance.

Of course, it's a major undertaking to build a repro body, but certainly not beyond our means. They're of simple construction, well within the capabilities of a good steel fabricator, and we have patterns and drawings to work from. I shall be investigating these possibilities further down the track, but I'd be pretty confident that most parts can be reproduced faithfully, provided enough money is thrown at the project! It probably wouldn't be wasted, as gun tractors seem to fetch a decent price when sold. Besides, if it was all about the money, we wouldn't be restoring CMPs!

[Keith Webb]

Actually Euan's came from a different source, via Bruce Wiltshire who restored it. It was not one of the Hughes bodies.

There is another (not from Hughes) which has just arrived at the museum in Adelaide and there are several others such as the remains of one at Copley, another which was used in the making of the Back of Beyond, and even one which wound up at Wayne M's in the 70s.

Then there's the cut up one recovered from Ballarat about 5 years ago which is destined for Dubbo.

And there is yet another in South Australia which has had the lower subframe removed.

So while we don't know the exact number of Chev bodies produced it would seem there were at least 45 CGT9s built late in the war. Only 2 were known to have been completed.

The AWM have a restored No9 FGT in their collection in the annexe as well as a F15A and F60L cab 12 GS.

As far as reproducing the No9 there are engineering drawings for most if not all the parts in existence.

[Tony Wheeler]

Continuing the story of my FGT projects.....no sooner had plan B come into effect than it was overtaken by plan C, when a remarkably complete FGT chassis in good condition turned up at recent clearing sale – conveniently located at Pyalong just north of Melbourne. The opportunity was too good to miss so I bought it, and upon getting it home, a light rub on the front shell identified it as ARN 55936 - next in sequence to my plan B FGT, and just like that one, a FGT 8 originally.

Perhaps they were sister FGTs in the same unit, but clearly this one has fared much better since then, as can be seen from the pics. The only damage is to the rear chassis, where the rear fairleads have been crudely torched off. Fortunately they were sitting on a pallet to be auctioned separately, so I was able to buy them too.

Within a few days of getting it home I had it running, after some initial problems, which included several sticky valves, and a nasty grinding noise while cranking over - which turned out to be coming from the oil pump. The sump in that area had been bashed in, causing it to impinge on the oil pump housing, deflecting it sufficiently to place pressure on the gears. Removal of the sump caused the noise to stop, and after removing the oil pump for inspection, I was satisfied that no permanent bending of the oil pump drive had occurred. All that was required to fix the problem was some panel beating of the sump.

Whilst the motor proved to be a good runner, the gearbox unfortunately is a write off, due to ingress of water over the years while standing. The groove in the gearshift lever which accommodates the reverse lock actuating rod seems to be a perfect channel for moisture - twice now I've found the rod rusted solid in its groove. In this case the damage had gone further – the gearbox itself had filled with water over time, and everything was rusted solid. I managed to get the gears sliding eventually, after a whole day's work with a crowbar, but the teeth are massively pitted, and the bearings make a terrible racket.

The rest of the drive train appears to be OK, except for the LH rear axle studs being sheared off, which means I'm restricted to front wheel drive for the moment.

Thus I have now accumulated 3 FGT projects, each one in better condition than the last. Perhaps if I wait a bit longer I'll come into a complete No 9 with body! Oh well, it's nice to dream.....

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

What became of the FGT 8/9 I found at Whittlesea, Terry Halls place? The chassis was very rough, but it had a few bits on it.

Having received directions from Mike I took a drive out to Terry Hall's scrapyard in Whittlesea, where to my great surprise and pleasure I discovered this FGT9 wreck had somehow managed to escape the crusher. It now rests safe and sound in my backyard awaiting some long overdue TLC.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

The chassis was very rough

You can say that again Mike!

[Tony Wheeler]

It took a bit of manouevering but finally it went through the gate to join its stablemates, safe at last after languishing for years under a pile of twisted metal in a scrapyard. In the shed are two FGT8 wrecks, with a third arriving in the next few weeks.

[Tony Wheeler]

Keith sent me this inspirational image of the future....my very own FGT9 in the driveway!

[Tony Wheeler]

From Keith's oldCMP site, some pics of this FGT taken in 2004.

Keith, you may want to update the caption: "This is a vehicle in the final stage of it's life, about to be scrapped."

Although I must admit there's not a hell of a lot to salvaged from it!

[Tony Wheeler]

As Keith also notes, "This is a sister truck to the one in a wartime image taken at Kairi in Queensland."

I wonder if it was in the same Regiment....

[Euan McDonald]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

From Keith's oldCMP site, some pics of this FGT taken in 2004.

Keith, you may want to update the caption: "This is a vehicle in the final stage of it's life, about to be scrapped."

Although I must admit there's not a hell of a lot to salvaged from it!

Hey Tony, I’m sure you figured were the side steps and fuel tank shield ended up?

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Euan McDonald

Hey Tony, I’m sure you figured were the side steps and fuel tank shield ended up?

Yes Keith mentioned the side steps went on your CGT9. I find it amazing they survived intact on such a beat up sawmill wreck.