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  #1  
Old 19-02-13, 21:28
Ian Johns Ian Johns is offline
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Here's the old girl (future project) 1943 Cab 13. The front spring bracket is different then yours. It has the extra hook on the bottom. Has anybody have any ideas why?
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  #2  
Old 19-02-13, 21:40
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
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Default Hook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Johns View Post
Here's the old girl (future project) 1943 Cab 13. The front spring bracket is different then yours. It has the extra hook on the bottom. Has anybody have any ideas why?
That is a very late production modification, I've only seen a couple like that here in Australia. I would imagine it would have something to do with anchoring a vehicle either for shipping or winching.

Does yours also have a different to standard gearbox cross member? One of those I saw with that type of spring hangar also had a F15 type cross member rather than the one where the gearbox bolts into it.
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  #3  
Old 19-02-13, 21:46
Ian Johns Ian Johns is offline
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Thanks for the info. When I get home tonight I'll check and see if I have any photos. If not when the snow melts a little I'll get in and crawl under her.
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  #4  
Old 20-02-13, 03:45
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Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Webb View Post
I would imagine it would have something to do with anchoring a vehicle either for shipping or winching.
Keith, I'm certain it's for winching, I distinctly recall seeing a diagram when we were kids, showing the use of scotches on a Cab 13 FAT. A chain (or cable) is attached to the scotch plate under the rear wheel and hooked onto the spring hanger, anchoring the vehicle for winching forwards. A similar arrangement was shown for winching rearwards, with the scotch plate under the front wheel, but I can't remember where the other end of the cable was hooked onto.

I always thought it was rather clever - the scotch plate has a "spade" underneath, which is forced into the ground as the vehicle is driven over it until the chain is taut.

As you say Keith it must have been a very late mod, because they're extremely rare to find. Here's one on a wrecked chassis I came across a while back.
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File Type: jpg TONY4030 - Copy.jpg (44.7 KB, 33 views)
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Last edited by Tony Wheeler; 20-02-13 at 12:47.
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  #5  
Old 20-02-13, 04:04
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Somewhere in a CMP manual....

...are illustration of how the scotches where tied to the truck in a fashion that allowed the wheels to be dragged over than held in place by the chain... it also shows where they were tied bu that may have been only for CGT...

I must admit I have never seen that extra hook on the front spring hanger.

Phil Waterman has a set of scotches and may actually have used them with his C60 cab 12 w/w.

There was a guy in Ontario, wine country, that had a whole bunch of wooden crates..... 4 scotches to a crate..... lucky to get a few before they went to the scrap heap as no else wanted them.

Bob
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  #6  
Old 20-02-13, 07:11
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hrpearce hrpearce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Webb View Post
That is a very late production modification, I've only seen a couple like that here in Australia. I would imagine it would have something to do with anchoring a vehicle either for shipping or winching.

Does yours also have a different to standard gearbox cross member? One of those I saw with that type of spring hangar also had a F15 type cross member rather than the one where the gearbox bolts into it.
The hooks are for winching. Page 31in driver's handbook for chevrolet 1945 describes the scotching methods. My father in law said they worked well until the winching became dificult and if you didn't stop in time you snaped the U bolts on the scotched axle.
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  #7  
Old 20-02-13, 11:49
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Default Blueprint for Victory

Yay! Finally got a copy of the Blueprint for Victory book.

$T2eC16VHJHQE9nzEymKVBRGL63uMkg~~60_3.jpg

New tie rod joint boots arrived yesterday too. They are a great fit, and will take the original spring and disks from the old ones.

I took my set of CNC files for a Browning 50 cal MG to the local metal fabrication shop. Awaiting price for cutting all the flat pieces. All other bits I will have to make myself. That will be interesting. No idea what to expect for $$$ of CNC cutting.
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  #8  
Old 20-02-13, 12:57
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Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrpearce View Post
if you didn't stop in time you snaped the U bolts on the scotched axle.
Perhaps that's why they introduced the hooked spring hanger. All the force is taken by the chain, there's no force whatsoever on the axle.
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  #9  
Old 20-02-13, 20:36
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Winch Scotches and Wheel Flange

Hi Guys

First I don't think the hook incorporated into the spring shackle was intended for use with the winch or winch scotches it is to lightly built. The U attachments for the scotches are much much heavier 3/4 to 1" diameter and they need to be.

I've attached the scotches drawing from the hand book as well as some pictures of the scotches on my truck. The pictures with the cables were taken when I was getting the correct length. Since then I've had heavy cable with loops made. Strangely because of the placement of the frame hooks the cable chain combo need to be different lengths depending on you are put them under front or rear wheels.

I've used the winch and scotches a lot for pulling very large trees up hill. The winch unit is amazingly power full and deserves respect. When you put the scotches down on the ground and hook them to the frame hooks and move the truck wheels up on them and then start pulling, because of the scotch angles they dig right into the ground until flush.

Now to the wheel flanges the explanation I was that they were primarily to speed ship loading and unloading using a pair of spreader bars equipped with loop ends a crane crew could very quickly have a truck read to lift. The other use of course is using two ropes they can be used like a capstan winch to pull a vehicle out being stuck. But if there was mud involved I'd drag at the regular winch cable first.

Cheers Phil
Attached Images
File Type: jpg winch scotch.jpg (22.9 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg Log spliter 023.jpg (34.7 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg Winch 001.jpg (65.1 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg Winch 004.jpg (75.4 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg Winch 005.jpg (53.3 KB, 33 views)
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  #10  
Old 21-02-13, 09:23
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Private_collector Private_collector is offline
Tony Baker
 
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Default Jacques

These are the replacement tie rod boots I was talking about.
Tie rod replacement boots 1.jpg Tie rod replacement boots 2.jpg
They are diffferent profile to original, but are a very good fit. The upper hole is quite snug through the tie rod bolt end, but will make for a good tight fit and sits really well. Using the original spring keeps the boot pressed to both surfaces. Just need to remove the short right-angled end piece (about 8mm long) on bottom end of the spring. I had already removed those before I took these photos, sorry. The two metal discs are from the original boot. One goes inside bottom of new boot, below the spring.

The boots courtesy of ebay at cost of $5.95 pair, from this seller in AUS: http://stores.ebay.com.au/suzukisupe...id=p4340.l2563

Part identification No: TE 8

Specs as per following photo.
605379631_o.jpg
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  #11  
Old 21-02-13, 22:50
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Private_collector View Post
These are the replacement tie rod boots I was talking about.
goes inside bottom of new boot, below the spring.

The boots courtesy of ebay at cost of $5.95 pair, from this seller in AUS: http://stores.ebay.com.au/suzukisupe...id=p4340.l2563

Part identification No: TE 8

Specs as per following photo.
Attachment 55076
Hi Tony,

Many thanks for that info. If it does the job, looks reasonable, and doesn't cost the earth they will do me! Bit like my modified rubber gearshift boot a few weeks back.

Cheers
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  #12  
Old 21-02-13, 10:48
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Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Waterman View Post
I've attached the scotches drawing from the hand book
Yes, this is similar to the FAT diagram I recall, although not quite as detailed. Note low position of front cable attachment point - well below the chassis rail, in the vicinity of the spring hanger. This is necessary to avoid fouling the step brackets, petrol tank and brackets (esp. longer FAT petrol tank), and battery box on RHS. This can be demonstrated by running a string line from under the rear wheel to ANY point on the chassis rail itself where a hook might be mounted. It may just be possible on the LHS of 60S and 60L CMPs, but definitely not possible on the RHS. I'm left to conclude that winching forward with scotches was not possible before the hooked spring hanger mod. Any thoughts....?

As Phil says the hook is not large in cross-section, being merely an extension of the ribbed reinforcement part of the spring hanger, which is barely 3/8" thick. However it's of considerable depth along the line of force, and a thick stiffener pad has been added in the casting. In order to fail it would have to shear through a large area of metal, something along the lines shown in pic 5 perhaps.

There would of course be a component of sideways force, since the scotch plates are outboard of the spring hangers, and this would be greatest with the FAT, due to the greater angle resulting from SWB. All in all though I reckon it would be plenty strong enough for a CMP winch, which are only rated at 7000 lbs. However I guess we'll never know, unless perhaps Ian will be kind enough to test his to destruction for us!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg winch scotch.jpg (22.9 KB, 122 views)
File Type: jpg TONY5330 - Copy.jpg (46.9 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg 20130216_131340.jpg (60.9 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg TONY4029 - Copy.jpg (51.4 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg TONY4030 - Copy (2).jpg (38.1 KB, 26 views)
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  #13  
Old 21-02-13, 14:52
Ian Johns Ian Johns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
Yes, this is similar to the FAT diagram I recall, although not quite as detailed. Note low position of front cable attachment point - well below the chassis rail, in the vicinity of the spring hanger. This is necessary to avoid fouling the step brackets, petrol tank and brackets (esp. longer FAT petrol tank), and battery box on RHS. This can be demonstrated by running a string line from under the rear wheel to ANY point on the chassis rail itself where a hook might be mounted. It may just be possible on the LHS of 60S and 60L CMPs, but definitely not possible on the RHS. I'm left to conclude that winching forward with scotches was not possible before the hooked spring hanger mod. Any thoughts....?

As Phil says the hook is not large in cross-section, being merely an extension of the ribbed reinforcement part of the spring hanger, which is barely 3/8" thick. However it's of considerable depth along the line of force, and a thick stiffener pad has been added in the casting. In order to fail it would have to shear through a large area of metal, something along the lines shown in pic 5 perhaps.

There would of course be a component of sideways force, since the scotch plates are outboard of the spring hangers, and this would be greatest with the FAT, due to the greater angle resulting from SWB. All in all though I reckon it would be plenty strong enough for a CMP winch, which are only rated at 7000 lbs. However I guess we'll never know, unless perhaps Ian will be kind enough to test his to destruction for us!
LOL I'll pass on it this time. Maybe later?
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  #14  
Old 24-02-13, 06:56
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Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Waterman View Post
Now to the wheel flanges the explanation I was that they were primarily to speed ship loading and unloading using a pair of spreader bars equipped with loop ends a crane crew could very quickly have a truck read to lift. The other use of course is using two ropes they can be used like a capstan winch to pull a vehicle out being stuck. But if there was mud involved I'd drag at the regular winch cable first.

Pic 1 shows the ship loading arrangement Phil describes, but prior to the introduction of flanged hubs. It can be seen just how much simpler and faster it would be with flanged hubs. Personally I have no doubt they were designed expressly for this purpose. I wonder if they were part of D-Day planning...? They appeared in Australia around late '44 as standard equipment.

I've often heard the capstan winch suggestion, but I've always dismissed it as pure speculation arising from the shape of the front hub, which resembles a miniature ship's capstan. It strikes me as entirely impractical, if not impossible. Has anyone ever tried it? If not, it might be a worthwhile exercise one day, to prove the point one way or the other. Perhaps we can get MythBusters to tackle it!
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File Type: jpg mp.natlib.govt.nz 2.jpg (60.8 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg TONY5331.jpg (39.8 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg TONY5332.jpg (39.0 KB, 18 views)
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  #15  
Old 24-02-13, 10:43
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Tony Baker
 
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Default Another less than satisfying day.

Pintle finished.jpg
On Saturday morning, the pintle parts and front bumper brackets were painted. Pintle was assembled/installed later that afternoon. Yep, the paint dries that quick! So quick that I could wrap a rag around the middle of the pintle spring, attach a loop of chain, and hold it in place with the engine hoist, while I put the second pintle bracket in place.
Pintle rubber.jpg
I took the liberty of adding a thin strip of rubber to the pintle brackets, to stop the spring from rattling around.
Front springs cleaned.jpg
Finally got all the old spring clamps off front spring sets.Then gave em a really good cleaning, ready for the sandblasters tomorrow.

As predicted (no, really!), the rain has started to move in again, and jungle drums say lots more rain coming tomorrow and Tuesday. Wonderful news.
Got begger-all done on front axle and steering. Due to weight, that's an outside job only. At least until I get the steering knuckles off. So that means an impromptu 'replacement' job done today.
Reverse selector latch old.jpg Reverse select latch new.jpg
And that job was to make a new reverse select latch for the gear shift. I have three gearboxes, and none have a latch that's in one piece. One was, until a friend 'helped' me unload it when I got it home, and allowed the thing to fall onto the latch, squashing and breaking it!
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