Dodge WC question

[gordon]

Lynn, I've had a couple of early Dodges, up to about July '42, that had symettrical grilles. Other features included no rifle rack or pioneer rack ( not invented yet )

Hanno,

I'd suggest this was rebuilt immediately post war somewhere like a Czech facility that was building U-Wagens for the Germans a year or two previously, hence the equipment, facilities, and style.

I'd also suggest that the Weapon Carrier must have been almost new as I can't see a dent, ding, or scratch in the front metal, which isn't common.

[Jan Mostek]

Hi guys,
first of all I would like to thank you for the above discussion.
Secondly, a short note about the country of origin. The vehicle was used, as I mentioned, by Czech 1.st Army Corps which were a part of Red Army. The pictures I have sent were taken during so called Carpatian operation which happened before Russians entered Czechoslovakia on Polish-Czechoslovakian borders (mountains) under leadership of Russian Marshall Koniev and begun in September 1944. In this area also the vehicle ended up by the german anti-tank mine collision.

[motto (RIP)]

If the vehicle was in the possession of the Germans and underwent modification by them it presumably would have been captured somewhere the allies were in contact with them. Does Italy fit the bill? North Africa seems too remote and I doubt they even got much of their own gear back from there.

It makes sense that examples of anything new that was encountered would have been sent back to Germany for evaluation and possibly made use of afterwards. However, it all seems very unlikely that after capturing, examining and modifying the vehicle it was then taken from them by the Russians in an excellent condition. It's far more believable that the vehicle was acquired and modified by some Russian or allied agency.

David

[Lynn Eades]

Did the Russians get Dodge Weapons Carriers (along with Jeeps, Studebakers etc.)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Did the Russians get Dodge Weapons Carriers (along with Jeeps, Studebakers etc.)

Yes, according to this site http://www.o5m6.de/dodge_wc51.html about 25,000 WC-series in total.

H.

[Eduard Sorokin]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

according to this site http://www.o5m6.de/dodge_wc51.html about 25,000 WC-series in total.

Quantity data are different, as usually in history: I have found the information about 19.621 Dodge WC vehicles, supplied to the USSR.

[gordon]

Having handled numerous 3/4 ton wheels I know just how heavy they are. I wouldn't want them on a tailgate, but I can't see how else you would use that area.

[Bill Murray]

Hi All:

This is not really my area of expertise, but........

1. The Russians did get the WC Dodges and to the best I can find out, began receiving them in 1943 after the US Army and Marines got the first batches.

2. Jan has given us a date which is invaluable I think. By that time, the Germans were on their way "home" and conceivably would have had little time and resources to waste on making up special umbau-wagens for high ranking officers.

3. We now also have a location, which would indicate the Dodge came from the East, not the West, on it's way to Czechoslovakia so to say. So, the Tatra possibility may fail the test.

4. On the other hand, the Russians had 100s of thousands of German prisoners on hand to use for whatever purpose and not all were riflemen.
Many were artisans and craftsmen who may have done exactly this type of bodywork both before and during the War. The styling is certainly typical of such German conversions.

5. Therefore, if my logic machine is still functioning, I would say both vehicles could well have been converted somewhere in the Russian sphere of influence and possibly to a German design and maybe even by German POWs.

I hope that makes sense.

Cheers
Bill

[gordon]

The completely undamaged nature of the front sheet metal and bumper would suggest something like that.

[Jan Mostek]

Well, I guess, Bill could be neat the truth. I have no idea about organisation of russian front units, but thex definitely have enough od POWs in this tine. On the other hand I am not too familiar with russian war machine but ut seems to me they had lack of vehicles like staff cars. Some Land Lease jeeps, small Gazes and that´s it. And in this case, even if he was Czech, but was high rank officer.

[Eduard Sorokin]

How many different assumptions !
I feel sure, all things are much easier.

For example, at that time German POWs were involved in works in building of different buildings, channels, roads, plants and houses only. In many our towns (including my town) and cities are the buildings until today, which were built by Germans.
Highly skilled German experts (for example, rocket designers, etc) were involved by Russians only after War ended.

As to body doors of these Dodges - here are my versions:



And Petrol tank refuelling hole is in same position as on image in my post, and spare wheel on rear. And canvas top is the same.

The vehicle on this image was developed experimentally by ZiS Truck factory in 1943. And it is obviously, Russian designers had some captured German vehicles before their eyes . Even canvas top looks like German style.
Probably, after tests this vehicle (these vehicles) were not adopted by army, and was remained in a reserve. Later this vehicle has been transferred for L. Svoboda use (and not usual open-cab Dodge, because he was not ordinary soldier, but high Commander Officer of friendly Czech Forces).

What are Your opinions ?