Dodge WC question

[gordon]

You might be right about the shocks and the rubber Lynn.

I was looking at the blackout light, 'wire-on' later standard grille guards, no Dodge badge, stuff like that, which would put it after the middle of 1942 for me. Early or late is relative.

Looking at the bodywork, it doesn't shout Russian to me. Any chance it was done in Czechoslovakia ? It is much more like something you would find on a Tatra, and of course the Germans kept the Tatra facilities up and running so they would be capable of that.

[Lynn Eades]

Gordon, I have no knowledge of the European side. What do you think about it being a post war build? What about an early Volvo effort? It appears very minimalistic, but well done.

With regards the Dodge donor, yes I would say mid 42 (which in my books, I would call early for a 3/4 ton WC) I believe the Dodge badge, no blackout light, and the two symetrical headlight guards, to be all very early.
Bart Vanderveen's article on the WC55 (Wheels and Tracks) shows three of them on a beach on a pacific island, and at least one had symetrical headlight guards. If it wasn't for that picture, I would have said they were only on experimental models. I have (It's in pieces) a 6th August 42. built WW55.(ex Marine Corps)
I have no recall of when the grill construction changed.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by gordon

Looking at the bodywork, it doesn't shout Russian to me. Any chance it was done in Czechoslovakia ? It is much more like something you would find on a Tatra, and of course the Germans kept the Tatra facilities up and running so they would be capable of that.

Gordon, agree. What it shouts is German "Umbau-wagen", both in style (slanted rear edge of doors) and practice. The Germans had a habit of converting perfectly usable trucks into their Kfz. 12 or 15 body style. Picture below shows a converted Bedford MW, you will notice the similarities.

But the big question in this case is: where would the Germans have captured a mid-war Dodge WC52? The other allied trucks were mostly captured in Europe during the Blitzkrieg, after which there were time and resources available in the occupied countries for these conversions. Later during the war I cannot see the Germans devoting time and resources to these type of conversions.

H.

[gordon]

Lynn, I've had a couple of early Dodges, up to about July '42, that had symettrical grilles. Other features included no rifle rack or pioneer rack ( not invented yet )

Hanno,

I'd suggest this was rebuilt immediately post war somewhere like a Czech facility that was building U-Wagens for the Germans a year or two previously, hence the equipment, facilities, and style.

I'd also suggest that the Weapon Carrier must have been almost new as I can't see a dent, ding, or scratch in the front metal, which isn't common.

[Jan Mostek]

Hi guys,
first of all I would like to thank you for the above discussion.
Secondly, a short note about the country of origin. The vehicle was used, as I mentioned, by Czech 1.st Army Corps which were a part of Red Army. The pictures I have sent were taken during so called Carpatian operation which happened before Russians entered Czechoslovakia on Polish-Czechoslovakian borders (mountains) under leadership of Russian Marshall Koniev and begun in September 1944. In this area also the vehicle ended up by the german anti-tank mine collision.

[motto]

If the vehicle was in the possession of the Germans and underwent modification by them it presumably would have been captured somewhere the allies were in contact with them. Does Italy fit the bill? North Africa seems too remote and I doubt they even got much of their own gear back from there.

It makes sense that examples of anything new that was encountered would have been sent back to Germany for evaluation and possibly made use of afterwards. However, it all seems very unlikely that after capturing, examining and modifying the vehicle it was then taken from them by the Russians in an excellent condition. It's far more believable that the vehicle was acquired and modified by some Russian or allied agency.

David

[Lynn Eades]

Did the Russians get Dodge Weapons Carriers (along with Jeeps, Studebakers etc.)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Did the Russians get Dodge Weapons Carriers (along with Jeeps, Studebakers etc.)

Yes, according to this site http://www.o5m6.de/dodge_wc51.html about 25,000 WC-series in total.

H.

[Bill Murray]

Hi All:

This is not really my area of expertise, but........

1. The Russians did get the WC Dodges and to the best I can find out, began receiving them in 1943 after the US Army and Marines got the first batches.

2. Jan has given us a date which is invaluable I think. By that time, the Germans were on their way "home" and conceivably would have had little time and resources to waste on making up special umbau-wagens for high ranking officers.

3. We now also have a location, which would indicate the Dodge came from the East, not the West, on it's way to Czechoslovakia so to say. So, the Tatra possibility may fail the test.

4. On the other hand, the Russians had 100s of thousands of German prisoners on hand to use for whatever purpose and not all were riflemen.
Many were artisans and craftsmen who may have done exactly this type of bodywork both before and during the War. The styling is certainly typical of such German conversions.

5. Therefore, if my logic machine is still functioning, I would say both vehicles could well have been converted somewhere in the Russian sphere of influence and possibly to a German design and maybe even by German POWs.

I hope that makes sense.

Cheers
Bill