Did Canadian army in ETO use 4x2 CMPs?

[jakob]

Yes hanno jou are right. it's a 4x2 Model C15 15cwt like mine.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

image.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

Here's one of these F15's with British wooden body as found on British 15-cwt trucks like the Bedford MW, Morris-Commercial, etc.

This one is in use with the Norwegian Brigade in Germany, 1947-1953. Picture source: https://digitaltmuseum.no/0110127322...klandsbrigaden

F15 Norwegian Army Brigade in post-WW2 Germany.JPG Screenshot_2021-04-20 Lastebiler i Tysklandsbrigaden (1).jpg

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Perhaps a strange question, but where there any 4x2 's delivered to the Canadian Army?? 4x2 is a typical British configuration, like the Bedford MW and the Fordson WOT 2.

Groeten Hendrik

[jakob]

I have one f15 4x2 but no contract id number plates.

And i have a chev C15 4x2 with id plates with contract number starting with SM ????.
Matching number vehicle id plates engine and doar number still on.
Build on british contract number.

There are 2 more chev C15 4x2 on my yard without id plates and i have one in bits and peaces with out id plates as wel.

Do you have id plates with contract numbers?

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Ours also has a British contract number.

groet

Hendrik

[Dave Newcomb]

HI all; the British/ commonwealth units in Egypt had 4X2's of '39 and '40 mfg. Civilian cabs with wide tyres. These trucks are pictured in Ford Trucks publication of the Early V8 Ford Club. Newc

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's another Ford F15 4x2 GS truck with British wooden GS body, pictured on the road from Wassenaar to The Hague on 8 May 1945.

IMG_4918.JPG 18121669_1913762428904460_8248622424010177911_o.jpg

18076674_1913762432237793_315783763711447308_o.jpg

Source: https://libertytour.nl/

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another 4x2 CMP in Europe, via Keith Webb: "Spitfire pilots of 111 Sqn RAF in France, 1944 with a Ford 15CWT in the background."

40037079_10210886828481111_3225395408503046144_o.jpg

[Keith Webb]

The RAF and RAAF squadrons in the Desert Air Force used F15s in some numbers.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Another 4x2 CMP in Europe, via Keith Webb: "Spitfire pilots of 111 Sqn RAF in France, 1944 with a Ford 15CWT in the background."

Attachment 101729

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

In the background, here's another 15-cwt 4x2 truck with British GS body, picture was taken somewhere in Normandy on 13 August 1944.

large_000000.jpg IWM B9093 (cropped).JPG

© IWM (B 9093), source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205202473

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

Here’s a screenshot of one of these trucks. Odon Valley, Normandy, France, 21 June 1944.

AFEC1408-207C-4AAE-9926-57F110C0296F.jpeg
Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019591

DESCRIPTION
Object description
Traffic from formations deployed with 12th Corps in the Odon valley encounters difficult road conditions after the great storm of July 20th 1944.
Full description
Lorries, trucks, jeeps and motorcycle despatch riders belonging primarily to 43rd (Wessex) Division and 3rd Army Group Royal Artillery units are seen making their way along a badly- rutted road (outside the village of Marcelet) that has become a sea of liquid mud; among the numerous types of vehicle seen here are an Albion six-wheeled 3-ton lorry from an unspecified 43rd (Wessex) Division unit, two CMP 3-ton lorries from 504th and 505th Companies RASC respectively, two Dodge tipper lorries from a 2nd Army RASC unit, a Scammell heavy breakdown tractor ("Liberator") from 107th RAC's REME echelon, a CMP water truck from 179th Field Regiment RA, a Bedford MW truck from 13th Medium Regiment RA (which gets stuck in a pothole and has to be towed free), two Fordson WOT6 lorries (with 'A' squadron markings) carrying explosives for an unspecified 79th Armoured Division unit and a Humber heavy utility staff car.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

And here are a couple more, maybe even three.

Two Ford F15 4x2 trucks passing Sherman Crab flail tanks. Note they are fitted with wooden cargo bodies like on most British 15-cwt trucks. The third one may have had a wooden body too, as not much is left after it burned.

29D76503-E60A-4211-A12C-D2379660D326.jpeg A4019BEF-1395-420B-9F49-0D18AB190A3A.jpg C2D2D5D0-08B7-4913-8EB5-30D50A9BC391.jpg

Source of screenshots: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019710

Object description
While the rest of the 7th Armoured Division is placed in reserve, units serving with the 22nd Armoured Brigade join up with the 43rd (Wessex) Division on the southern slopes of Mont Pincon.
Full description
Two Canadian-pattern 15 cwt-trucks drive past a column of Sherman Crab flail tanks belonging to the Westminster Dragoons awaiting the call into action near Roucamps (?). The burnt-out remains of trucks, lorries and jeeps from the 1/5th Battalion Queen's Regiment which were destroyed by mines and shell-fire on August 5th 1944 litter the main road running through the village of Vallée de Hamars. Cromwell and Firefly tanks from the 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards and a lone 5th Royal Horse Artillery OP Cromwell tank churn up the dusty road from Roucamps to Le Plessis-Grimoult, where they will join up with 43rd Division's 129th Brigade.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

Alex spotted this C15 in a film clip recently. On 1 October 1944, shortly after Eindhoven was liberated, a volunteer of the Red Cross collects money.

Note the spare wheel: it sits low on a shelf, just like the F15s with British 15-cwt body as seen in this thread. This would be the first confirmed C15 with this body.

According to the Chilwell list Z5354431 was one of the following batch: "Z5353961-5354980 SM2689 Chevrolet truck 15cwt 4x2 G/S"

C15 Eindhoven 1 okt 44-1.jpg C15 Eindhoven 1 okt 44-2.jpg

Source: http://in.beeldengeluid.nl/collectie...864/false/true

[Alex van de Wetering]

Just came across this 4x2. Picture taken in Haaren 1944 (Brabant, south part of the Netherlands)


Does that say "CZ" on the door?

source: https://www.bhic.nl

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Just came across this 4x2. Picture taken in Haaren 1944 (Brabant, south part of the Netherlands)

Does that say "CZ" on the door?

Great find again, Mr. eagle eye!

I'd say it does say CZ. Now, is it a Ford or Chevrolet?

[Alex van de Wetering]

Now, is it a Ford or Chevrolet?

Yes......most likely a Chevrolet or Ford

But seriously; very hard to tell.....mirror support or brush guard can't be seen.
The same picture turns up twice in the archive, but the other scan is even worse.

Alex

[Tony Smith]

Two things, the picture is blurred because it's going very fast.

And the front hubcap appears to be a small cap casting a long, thin shadow.

Both of these things would indicate Ford.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

And another CMP with British 15-cwt body. Its census number reads Z5346754.


CMP with British body.jpg CMP with British body (2) .jpg

Source: https://www.britishpathe.com/video/time-off-from-war

Title reads: "Time off from war".

Normandy, France.

ISSUE DATE:10/08/1944

Description:
Various shots of British soldiers (the Desert Rats) arriving at rest camp run by Second Army Corps. They alight from truck and are given cigarettes and letter cards. Various shots of the troops lining up for food, eating in mess tent and then washing out their mess tins.

We see the soldiers relaxing on few days leave. Various shots of some of the soldiers out horse riding on ponies captured from Germans. Some others go out on small dinghies and fishing boats loaned by local fishermen. Some of the men even catch a few fish.

Various shots of local French women doing the laundry for the troops. M/S of group of troops getting haircut from French hairdresser. M/S of soldier hands letter into the field censor who makes small alteration.

C/U of makeshift sign for "The Wheatsheaf". C/U of soldiers drinking beer from bottles. Various shots of an open-air stage, a couple of comics entertain some of the troops.

Various shots of soldiers getting back onto trucks to go back to the war. One soldier "Shorty" is late and has to run, his mates haul him up into the truck as it starts to drove away

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

And another CMP with British 15-cwt body. Its census number reads Z5346754.

Hmm, cannot find a listing, other than the block "529607 - 550000 | Not taken up".

Surely this block of 20394 census numbers must have been assigned to some contracts?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Hmm, cannot find a listing, other than the block "529607 - 550000 | Not taken up".

Surely this block of 20394 census numbers must have been assigned to some contracts?

Part of this block of census numbers was assigned to "Z5353961-5354980 | SM2689 | Chevrolet truck 15cwt 4x2 G/S", but the subject vehicle's census number Z5346754 just precedes this block.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Alex found another picture of one of those CMP 4x2 15-cwts with British GS body - but it is a Chevrolet C15 this time!

This is the first C15 for sure, another likely candidate can be found in post #53.

IWM B 8893 screenshot.jpg

"Tanks under repair in an open air REME tank recovery and repair workshop."

IWM B 8893.jpg IWM B 8893 2.jpg

Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205417942, refers to https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205417938

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Alex found another picture of one of those CMP 4x2 15-cwts with British GS body - but it is a Chevrolet C15 this time!

Hanno, the funny thing is that you always find these sort of things when you are looking for something else! I was actually looking for pictures with REME and RCEME markings!

Also note the white star painted on the canvas sides....not the most common place to put it.

a side note...this is a C15 in British service

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

A new picture of this rare variant of the F15. It was recently published in a French magazine:

D72B086F-8281-4229-9124-40E30B3874A3.jpg BDF5CBC7-21DE-427F-B777-9861858B4D0D.jpeg

[Alex van de Wetering]

Two 4x2's (C15's I think based on the bumper brush and mirror location) in a parade in my old hometown of Haarlem, May 1945.

Again I am not 100% sure these are Canadian trucks.

source:https://noord-hollandsarchief.nl/bee...ding&miview=ff

From about 18:23

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Nice find, Alex.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

A new picture of this rare variant of the F15.

And another one, photographed in Norway in the summer of 1945.

Census number Z 5347285 is for Ford F15/C291W No.13 Cab 15cwt 4x2 Truck GS from contract SM2680 with WD No. Z 5345144 - 5348449

3C7B6690-DB62-468C-8FC5-1DF791E79525.jpeg 2982C394-219D-4921-B0E7-CFDF27DF6730.jpg
Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/8596...5188826550553/

[Alex van de Wetering]

Ford F15, I think, in Holland 1945:

source: https://youtu.be/fOf1M50VFZ4?t=554

I did take the liberty of adjusting the width of the screen caps a bit.....(2 caps of same vehicle...British wooden body with rounded wheel arch)

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hanno, Sanne......Chevrolet C15 in Naaldwijk, Holland 1945

source:https://youtu.be/3gLCxMAhLYs?t=11

Is that a horn in the "Ford" location? or is it the expansion tank?

This thread started with Maurice's question if the Canadian army used (C15, F15) 4x2's in NW Europe.....and to be fair some of the pictures in this thread show British vehicles....however the C15 in this post seems to be Canadian.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Hanno, Sanne......Chevrolet C15 in Naaldwijk, Holland 1945

source:https://youtu.be/3gLCxMAhLYs?t=11

Is that a horn in the "Ford" location? or is it the expansion tank?

This thread started with Maurice's question if the Canadian army used (C15, F15) 4x2's in NW Europe.....and to be fair some of the pictures in this thread show British vehicles....however the C15 in this post seems to be Canadian.

Nice find Alex!

I've searched for the original which can be found here: https://youtu.be/tPqbc1u0-C8

These are Canadian troops, so there is at least some proof the Canadian Army used 4x2 CMP trucks.