M113 track

[Douglas Greville]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi

Interesting info on the tracks, any photos of the different track types?

Cheers Phil

Phil

The original track in US use was T130, this was superceded by T130E1, the differences are minor and you have to look really close to notice. This was then superceded by T150, which is a dual pin track.

Canada may have skipped T130E1 due to going to Diehl 213.

There are two types of Diehl 213, used by a number of countries. I have yet to find anyone who has the documents to define which is the correct suffix for each version.

Effectively they look identical from the front and rear, but have very different pins.

One has faceted pins for the end connector, the other has round pins and respective end connector, but with an alignment groove across the face of the pin.

I will try and attach pics so you can see the difference.

Supposedly one type is a "B" and the other a "G", but I get differing identifications with those 2 letters applied to both types.

At this stage, only something official will solve the issue.

Likewise the "Ice Cleats" (actually a tapered spike), everyone who served on an M113 fitted with Diehl 213 knew that was what went in the hole next to the track pad, but nobody seems to have a photo of one.

Regards
Doug

[Douglas Greville]

Forgot to say, that there is another Diehl variant, 513, this uses a "window" for the sprocket teeth. The whole idea was to decrease the forces at play on the end connector. On this version, the end connector serves to join the track, nothing more. There is a small alignment pin that sticks out of the main pin at a 90°C angle in the slot where the end connector bolt thread can be seen.

The pads are longer and do not have the metal "fin" the full length the way
the 213 pad does. Fin is only at each end of the pad.

Will just see if I can find a photo.

I have not heard of Canada using 513.

Regards
Doug

[rob love]

I have documentation on the Diehl tracks. The CF was going to a wider track around 2003 as part of the TLAV conversion, but they seem to have gone with the Soucey rubber track for the most part.

[rob love]

Had a look at Google images for TLAV track and the first image shows the track that Douglas showed 2 posts back.

[rob love]

Investigated a bit further regarding the tracks on the Canadian M113s.

The Diehl 213B track was the one with the flat spot on the pins. Originally installed in the latter half of the 70s, they were prone to shedding their end connectors, and the fleet was subject to severe speed limitations and no use of public roads while it was being investigated. Being of the "live track" variety, there was potential for the broken track to climb onto the vehicle and hurt the crew commander.

The M113 fleet (including the Lynx) changed over to the Diehl 213G track in the early 80s. The pins look round, but are described as hexagonal in the manuals. I'll have to have a closer look at some of our spare track sections to see if this is the case. The end connectors are also slightly re-enforced over the pins.

Re the 513, Canada was going to it, and it was fielded for the M113A3 fleet. However, at some point the decision was made to go entirely to the Soucey rubber band track, and the 513 is now gone from the Canadian system. We hold one section of this track out in the shed I believe.

Re ice grousers, they are a very real consideration here in Canada. I have not seen any documented evidence that we used the pin type Douglas describes, but rather we used the type that were installed in place of the track pad. I think they went on every 4th section of track, but I would have to confirm that in case anyone really needs to know. Edited to add I confirmed they are in fact every 7th or 8th pad. I also noted that there are ice grousers for the Soucey track. They appear to be more akin to the radial tire cables used on cars and light trucks.

[Douglas Greville]

Rob

Very interesting and thanks for the clarification.

I do wonder if the ice spikes and the grousers that go in place of the track pads are 2 differing uses?
WW2 smooth rubber block track ie. seen on Stuart/Grant/Lee/Sherman had grousers that were typically placed every 4 links. You probably know the ones I mean. I have never seen them described for ice use.

I doubt the Diehl grousers would be much use on say ice sheets, but would be typically used on snow or for improved traction in say muddy conditions?

I do note that even with grousers fitted, the Diehl track can still have the spikes fitted at the same time.

Don't know, just theorising?

As to the issue of end connectors coming off, it appears to have been solely
a Diehl related problem. Over here, it was traced back to failure to follow the installation instructions.
It is absolutely essential that the preservative is thoroughly cleaned off the pins and bores of the end connectors before joining. This requires solvent, brushes and rags. Something that may not be available in the field.
Likewise the correct torque on the end connector bolts.

Diehl were very specific about that: but if the information doesn't get to the
person doing the track bashing or that person decides not to follow the
instructions or does not have the brush/solvent/rags then tragedy can
happen.

Diehl light track (ie M113 family various versions) has seen track life of between 11,000 and 14,000 km reliably, which is pretty impressive compared to T130!

The heavier track with a centre connector is more forgiving of bad assembly as the loss of an outer connector doesn't mean immediate shedding of the track - or am I wrong?

Regards
Doug

Originally Posted by rob love

Investigated a bit further regarding the tracks on the Canadian M113s.

The Diehl 213B track was the one with the flat spot on the pins. Originally installed in the latter half of the 70s, they were prone to shedding their end connectors, and the fleet was subject to severe speed limitations and no use of public roads while it was being investigated. Being of the "live track" variety, there was potential for the broken track to climb onto the vehicle and hurt the crew commander.

The M113 fleet (including the Lynx) changed over to the Diehl 213G track in the early 80s. The pins look round, but are described as hexagonal in the manuals. I'll have to have a closer look at some of our spare track sections to see if this is the case. The end connectors are also slightly re-enforced over the pins.

Re the 513, Canada was going to it, and it was fielded for the M113A3 fleet. However, at some point the decision was made to go entirely to the Soucey rubber band track, and the 513 is now gone from the Canadian system. We hold one section of this track out in the shed I believe.

Re ice grousers, they are a very real consideration here in Canada. I have not seen any documented evidence that we used the pin type Douglas describes, but rather we used the type that were installed in place of the track pad. I think they went on every 4th section of track, but I would have to confirm that in case anyone really needs to know.

I also noted that there are ice grousers for the Soucey track. They appear to be more akin to the radial tire cables used on cars and light trucks.

[rob love]

You are right Douglas. According to the manual the grousers were meant for when the ground would not provide adequate traction (I think they used the term boggy) and were not for use on hard surface. If they did have to be driven for short distance on hard surface, speed was limited to 10mph.

Our carriers had racks on the sides to hold these things. I can't say I ever saw them installed outside of a track course. It was usually too cold to be doing a lot of optional maintenance during the winter months.