AWM acquisition?

[Mike Cecil]

The terms beetleback and monkey face to describe the FAT and Cab 12 originated many, many years ago as an easy way to differentiate the types. They were terms used by Aust veterans, so I think being critical of the AWM staff member who used the terms in the entry is unwarranted. Personally, I would not have used them: 'Tractor Field Artillery (Cdn)' would have been enough.

I've not heard that the shape was associated with decontamination before - perhaps someone could enlighten me?

The tractor's registration number (British and Australian) is known, and the register entry clearly states it was refugee cargo, but I've not heard the term 'distress' applied to such cargoes before.

I think, overall, the entry could be improved. Keith: who made the facebook entry (I don't access face-thingie....)?

Mike

[Private_collector]

These are all the photos I have. Taken over a couple of years, either on ANZAC day or at the MJCQ event at Canungra, QLD.
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[Private_collector]

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[Private_collector]

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Thats all of them.

[Lynn Eades]

Ed, The CMP to the average Australian is a "Blitz". This has been the case since WWII.
While talking about names. The Universal carrier is almost always referred to as a Bren carrier (by your countrymen and mine) It isn't right but it's a tide I doubt we can turn.
I do agree that a museum should be making an effort to correctly identify a particular exhibit, but then for joe average who only knows these things by a nickname, it is also important to tie the two together.
This is always going to be a battle and I find it particularly annoying when a vehicle is knowingly labelled (for many years) as something else. A crime made worse when it is a reputable (national) museum. At least for me this particular vehicle is now not on display (which is worse! )
I do like the fact that you bang away at this stuff, because someone needs to.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

These are all the photos I have. Taken over a couple of years, either on ANZAC day or at the MJCQ event at Canungra, QLD.

Fabulous pics Tony, thanks for posting. I've saved them to file where I can drool over them at leisure!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This is one of the earliest FAT's I can find, a Guy Quad Ant:

Guy%20Quad-Ant%204%20x%204%20Artillery%20Tractor.jpg

[Keith Webb]

Nobody would believe you if you turned up in something looking like that!

But it's genuine and looks pretty interesting.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This is one of the earliest FAT's I can find, a Guy Quad Ant:

Attachment 79791

[Lynn Eades]

I think we should call it a Dung Beetle?(I think there's already a Scarab?)

I wonder if the nick name sticks?????

Hanno, how can it be a FAT? It's a GAQ (that's never going to go viral)

[Tony Mathers]

This should answer a few questions.

Quads.jpg

Reference to the design shape is contained in a Mechanisation Board minute featured in Ventham and Fletcher’s Moving the guns : the mechanisation of the Royal Artillery, 1854-1939, p81. shown above.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

I think we should call it a Dung Beetle?(I think there's already a Scarab?)

I wonder if the nick name sticks?????

Hanno, how can it be a FAT? It's a GAQ (that's never going to go viral)

The Guy was listed as Tractor 4x4 and built under Contract No. V3245 for 16 vehicles, they were listed as 'less winch' and 'with winch', so looks like they were probably trials vehicles as later on Guy was to supply the Quad Ant FAT which also had the 'beetleback' style body as the Morris Commercial, and it is from these that the CMP FAT's were spawned.

Lynn, you may not know, but when the WD were trialing the 15cwt 4x2 trucks in late Thirties, Commer was a contender along with Bedford, Morris, etc. and the name of the Commer ........ Beetle!

I think the name 'beetleback' goes back a long way when referring to the Morris Commercial C8 FAT, probably back to service days, much the same as the names for Scammell Pioneer ... Coffeepot and AEC Militant Mk1 ...... Knocker. Most FAT's were referred to as plain Quads over here and I can remember my father saying that in the Fifties, when we regularly saw demobbed ones working on erecting precast concrete barns around the country.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Nobody would believe you if you turned up in something looking like that!

But it's genuine and looks pretty interesting.

It all looks quite Heath-Robinsonesque, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Hanno, how can it be a FAT? It's a GAQ (that's never going to go viral)

You mean GQA?

For other readers: FAT stands for Field Artillery Tractor, the name of the type of vehicle. Chevrolet built the CGT, Ford the FGT, etc., etc., all FAT's.

[Tim Bell]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This is one of the earliest FAT's I can find, a Guy Quad Ant:

Attachment 79791

Have a manual for that somewhere.

[Mike K]

That Guy looks like a Kubelwagen on steroids .

Guy Ant, Lizard, Vixant .. maybe its a Superant !

[Tim Lovelock]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This is one of the earliest FAT's I can find, a Guy Quad Ant:

Attachment 79791

Am I mistaken or are the body sides wood?

[Lynn Eades]

Yes Tim, I believe we are looking at wood. It was a commonly used material at that time in British vehicles.

[Tim Lovelock]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Yes Tim, I believe we are looking at wood. It was a commonly used material at that time in British vehicles.

Thanks, Lynn,

[Keith Webb]

The post on Facebook was one by the AWM from their official Fb page, shared by another Fb user.

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

I think, overall, the entry could be improved. Keith: who made the facebook entry (I don't access face-thingie....)?

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's what I wrote earlier:

Two things (1/2): "The unique shape was derived from a design to make the vehicle easier to decontaminate in the event of a gas attack" - where on earth did they get this idea?!? The back on the original Quad FAT was slanted because it had to carry the gun platform on the back and it could be slid on and off the sloping back easier than from a horizontal surface.

Two things (2/2): "This ‘beetleback’ arrived in Australia in 1942 as ‘refugee’ or ‘distress’ cargo; i.e. cargo that was at sea when the British and Dutch territories fell to the Japanese and had to be diverted to Australia" - was it really refugee cargo, or was it shipped back after doing service with the Australian Army in North Africa? For certain, it was not a diverted shipment to the Dutch East Indies.

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Hanno,

As mentioned in my earlier post, the register entry states it was received as Refugee cargo. That generally means on a ship diverted to Australia in early 1942, to avoid areas that were already under Japanese control. So on their way to British units in Malaya, perhaps? Either way, the register entry is quite clear.

Cab 12 FATs were not provided to Australian units in North Africa until well into 1942, and those that can be traced to that origin arrived much later than the example acquired by the AWM. Moreover, where such tractors were brought to Australia by the returning AIF, most were not then transferred to the Australian register, and those few that were do not have the accompanying entry 'refugee'.

Like you, I am puzzled by the decontamination comment in relation to the body shape, and wonder at its origins.

Mike

[rob love]

Couldn't somebody ask on their facebook page what is meant re the decontamination? The masses need to know.

Personally, I do not venture onto that site.

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Rob,

Give me a few days and I'll see if I can correspond about the tractor and the FB post by more direct means.

'In contact ....wait, out'

Mike

[Private_collector]

I'm only a poor dumb whitey, with minimal education, but do I understand correctly that this vehicle did NOT serve in Africa....at all?

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

As mentioned in my earlier post, the register entry states it was received as Refugee cargo. That generally means on a ship diverted to Australia in early 1942, to avoid areas that were already under Japanese control.

I believe in this case Mike the term is applied in a purely official sense, in accordance with Mech Circ 314 of April '42:

VEHICLES FROM REFUGEE SHIPS

"A number of vehicles of various types which have not previously been operated by A.I.F. Units, have arrived from overseas. These vehicles will be allotted numbers from a special block which has been reserved for the purpose, viz.: 50201 - 51000 for wheeled vehicles"

Cab 12 FATs arrived in numbers on 6th and 7th Div convoys during early-mid '42. As brand new vehicles taken on charge in Alexandria immediately prior to sailing, they arrived as "types which have not previously been operated by A.I.F. Units", thus falling under the heading "Vehicles from Refugee Ships."

Of course, some of these convoys were in fact diverted at sea, when Java and Sumatra fell, but that's irrelevant under Mech Circ 314.


Mech Circ 314 Numbering of Vehicles.jpg

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Cab 12 FATs were not provided to Australian units in North Africa until well into 1942, and those that can be traced to that origin arrived much later than the example acquired by the AWM. Moreover, where such tractors were brought to Australia by the returning AIF, most were not then transferred to the Australian register, and those few that were do not have the accompanying entry 'refugee'.

Again, this would seem to be in accordance with Mech Circ 314. That is, having been in service for some time, they were no longer "types which have not previously been operated by A.I.F. Units".

I'd be interested to learn more about these later Cab 12 FAT arrivals Mike. I take it they were 9th Div vehicles arriving in early '43...?