Canadian Ferrets 1975 CFB Meaford

[rob love]

When the regular force went to the US radios instead of the C42 radio, the Ferrets were appropriately modified. It was not a real clean installation. Generally, both the mount brackets and the hulls were torch cut to allow the new AMU and cables to be installed. Much better radios, but then again two different generations of electronics....tubes vs solid state. Thankfully, you did not need to continually re-tune the radio and AMU on the newer stuff like the old C-42, especially in the arctic temps. Nor did you get the hernia trying to lift the US radio in and out of the hull like....damn those 42s were heavy.

[jdmcm]

Thanks Rob, that would be great.

John

[Robin Craig]

Great replies all,

So the US radios you say, what weapon would have been used with the Ferret at that time?

I have been curious about the Bren Vs the .30 cal Browning time period change over. I am thinking the Bren went out when the FN came in, as I assume Canada did not re-barrel their like the British did?

I have to say it is great when pictures like these surface to show that outside the norm happens.

[Ed Storey]

For Canadian machines, the main weapon evolved from .303 Bren, to M1919A4 .30 cal finally to re-chambred .30 cals which became C6 GPMGs. The weapons mount may also have changed.

Crew weapons changed from Stens to C1 SMGs.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

For Canadian machines, the main weapon evolved from .303 Bren, to M1919A4 .30 cal finally to re-chambred .30 cals which became C6 GPMGs. The weapons mount may also have changed.

Crew weapons changed from Stens to C1 SMGs.

You got your numbers mixed up Ed.

The conversion in the late 60s of M1919s to 7.62 made them into C-1 GPMG. A later upgrade in the late 70s/early 80s to some of the design problems would have resulted in the designation becoming C1A1, but, so as not to cause confusion with the rifle (which, of course was the C1A1) the upgraded GPMG became the C5A1. There never was a C5, although that designation does appear on the cover of the last manual.

The C6 was the FN Mag, first procured as part of the Leopard program, and later adopted to replace the C5A1 in service. I was last issued a C5A1 in 1997 at which time they were withdrawn and replaced with the C6.

[Robin Craig]

This is quite clear to me as a Brit, in the same way mud is clear.

Let me try again.

So, personal weapon for crew 1960s through end of service in the 1980 would have been? 9mm Sterling?

Main weapon was .303 Bren up until replacement by .30 Cal Browning but when was change effected?

Sometimes I am dense

[Ed Storey]

I guess understanding the changes first entails using the correct names for weapons. Canada did not use the Sterling, we used the C1 SMG which was a Canadian Arsenals Limited manufactured 9mm SMG with Canadian features not found on British manufactured weapons. Calling a Canadian C1 SMG is like calling a Land Rover a Jeep. The 9mm Mk II Sten was replaced by the C1 SMG around 1960.

Rough dates for the change from .303 Bren to M1919A4 .30 cal - is early to mid-1960s as at this time the 7.62mm FNC2 was also replacing the Bren. The copy I have of C-30-541-000 CJ-001 Car, Armoured, Ferret, Mk I Scout Car, Command Car, Missile Car .30 Browning Machine Gun Kit Installation Instruction is Issue 1 from Oct 1965 so I guess that would be a good indicator of when the official change came in for the Ferret although I have photographs of M1919 armed Ferrets that pre-date this instruction such as this 1964 Cyprus photograph.

FV 701 Ferret Mk 1 ECC 112102 M1919A4.jpg

As Rob said, the 7.62mm C1 GPMG began in the late 1960s with the C1A1 7.62mm GPMG coming into service about a decade later or just about the time the Ferret was going out of service.