VICKERS MK6B's resto

[Tim Lovelock]

Hi Colin,
Some more footage of Light tanks (apologise if you've seen it).
BEF in Belgium..
The carriers seem to have some traction problems on the cobble stones.
I think Charlie Chaplin even makes a brief appearance lol
Cheers Tim

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060034934

[colin jones]

Rich, You might like the smell of your chocky sauce but I'm pretty sure the taste would have something to be desired for Lynn's right you need ice cream to disguise the taste
Tim, the crank handle is for the engine. The Meadows engine is facing the back of the tank and there is a tube that has a crankshaft extention running through it. there is a recess in the turret basket which you can see in post No 5.
I think they put the engine and trans in a hull first then all sat around a table to work out how to manually start it and came up with the rear facing crank system with tubes, recesses and hang down bits Great footage by the way.

[Mike Cecil]

I wonder how many of those in the footage survived the retreat to Dunkirk, let alone the entire war.

Colin, the crank arrangements are astonishing. What holds the swing-down crank holder 'wishbone' in the stowed position? Some sort of clip or a leather or webbing strap?

Only the Poms ...

I placed a link to your thread in the closing stages of my article in KVE News on the Vickers MkVIA. I hope you may get even more regular 'thread watchers' from it, as your restorations are exceptional and deserve a wide audience.

Mike

[colin jones]

Hi Mike, thanks for the mention on KVE. The crank handle has a small spring clip at the top which I haven't made yet until I go the to hardware and buy a cheap wood saw that I can cut up for the material. They make great clips.
I am now making the second top and the two turret ball races and It will take me a week or probably two as there is a lot of machining to do to house the 220 x 3/4" ball bearings. Another challenge to do some quite precision work. I have cut the first layer of material on my plasma and it is just beautiful. It is times like this when you can do accurate parts when you want and not have to rely on a third party and wait for them to fit your job in. Quite a major expense to begin with but it is now paying for its self and keeps the missus happy as well

[colin jones]

I am going to make the race in layer and weld them together as the profile is not something I can do in one piece but as I am able to cut all layers very accurate it will not be a problem as long as I manage the heat during the welding process. When I first saw the top of these tanks, I was amazed how thin the material was not knowing the profile of the turret ring and race as that is where it gets its strength from. The turret is almost as wide as the tank itself.
It really a very good design and a very interesting one to make as well. I had I price of $7k to make each race and a 2 month waiting time from China. Happy to make my own.

[Lynn Eades]

Mike, I have wondered what made it back across the channel as well, but it seems like nothing did.
About 63,500 vehicles were left behind, as I recall. I have no idea of what was sent.

[Mike Cecil]

Good point Lynn, but I was actually wondering about the human toll - sorry if I didn't make that clearer.

But talking of the cost in AFVs, the footage shows a Dragon (?) upside down in a bomb crater. That sudden flip & drop must have come as a shock to the crew.

Mike

[Tim Lovelock]

Originally Posted by colin jones

Rich, You might like the smell of your chocky sauce but I'm pretty sure the taste would have something to be desired for Lynn's right you need ice cream to disguise the taste
Tim, the crank handle is for the engine. The Meadows engine is facing the back of the tank and there is a tube that has a crankshaft extention running through it. there is a recess in the turret basket which you can see in post No 5.
I think they put the engine and trans in a hull first then all sat around a table to work out how to manually start it and came up with the rear facing crank system with tubes, recesses and hang down bits Great footage by the way.

Thanks Colin,
That all makes sense now.
Cheers Tim

[Douglas Greville]

Colin. You mention making spring clips from cheap wood saws. How do you cut and shape the clips? I would have thought the spring steel too tough for normal tools?

Regards
Doug

[David Herbert]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

About 63,500 vehicles were left behind, as I recall. I have no idea of what was sent.

Lynn, Surely that is too high a number ! I have no evidence but I could just about go for 6,350 but even that sounds high when you consider that the BEF was before we were propperly geared up for WW2 and did not have the vast number of American and Canadian trucks that we used for the Normandy landings.

David

[David Herbert]

Originally Posted by colin jones

I am going to make the race in layer and weld them together as the profile is not something I can do in one piece but as I am able to cut all layers very accurate it will not be a problem as long as I manage the heat during the welding process.

Colin, I wonder if you could rely on the bolts that hold the ring to the hull and not actually weld the layers together at all. The turret is not very heavy and the balls are hardly going to prise the layers apart. I am thinking that building the ring in layers should work pretty well. The running surface will need to be relatively smooth and the ends of the segments be aligned but there are enough balls that the surface loading will not require hardening of the running surface (though it would be nice). Actually WW2 proper tank turret rings were soft enough that there were instructions to move the turrets from time to time to prevent indentations forming.

Great work as always.
David

[Lynn Eades]

David, the number of 63,500 is from memory. I will check my book when I get home. The book is called "The Sands of Dunkirk" and I am reasonably sure about the figure. Basically Britian had to start again.
Keep in mind that the Germans had been building up their war materials and that the rest of Europe was in turmoil. Hitler had taken control in Germany in 1933. GB was moving in the same direction production wise.

Mike, my mistake. Sorry.

I await Colin's answer to Douglas's question.

[colin jones]

Doug, I have very successfully used wood saw material for clips on a run of bren gun carrier drivers tool box clips I made a few years ago. I cut the blade on a Guillotine for the shape as they were rectangle pieces. I was able to drill holes in it to rivet it to the doors. I tried to find the thread I did a few years back but couldn't find it. I did use the oxy/act to get some sharp bends and that worked well but you have to bend it slow as not to snap it.
David, there is 220 3/4 ball bearings in each race so it should spin very easy and I don't think I will have a problem at all with wear. the profile also has a small groove in the bottom and top of the bed which I assume is for grease and foreign material to sit. I cant really bolt it all as there is not enough room as you will see when I get a bit further along. The heat wont be too much of an issue although I think it will be about 3-4 layers in total but once I grind them all it should look like a cast ring and this is also new ground for me as I've not done a ball race before. I will keep posting

[colin jones]

Doug, I just found the old thread of the clips I made from a wood saw.

[David Herbert]

Colin,
I had asumed that there were about 40 bolts 'sewing' the ring to the hull as with bigger tanks. That would have been plenty to hold the layers together. In WW2 it was usual for the bolts to be fitted from the top and have slotted, countersunk heads so that they didn't stick up above the ring, nuts on the bottom. Then they started screwing them in from below into tapped holes in the ring. I hope the turret is just free to traverse with just a brake /lock to stop it. If it had geared traverse that is a whole minefield in itself. I will be fascinated to see the detail of how you make the ring as it is quite a challenge to get it spot on.

It might help that in Valentine production they used a device that was suported on a bearing fixed to the tank floor and another above the hull roof but fixed to it. The device was free to rotate on a vertical axis between these bearings which could be adjusted so that the axis was exactly in the centre of the turret ring. There was an electric grinder mounted onto the rotating part that was used to true up the hole that the ring would bolt into. Vickers did have a vertical lathe that would turn a whole tank hull but possibly it was needed for other jobs. This concept might be usefull here ?

David

[colin jones]

Dave, there are not that many bolts holding it down, 16 is what I can find and only 3/8 or possibly 7/16. It does have a geared traverse and you are definitely right another minefield on its own. I have a few ideas for that but cross that bridge in a week or so.

[Lynn Eades]

Thank you Colin on the spring steel.

I will Hijack you thread just a little:
From: The Sands Of Dunkirk by Richard Collier 1961.
Page 265
Facts about DunKirk.
Gort's army brought back:
322 guns (artillery pieces?)
4,739 vehicles
533 motor cycles
32,303 tons of ammo
33,060 tons of stores
1,071 tons of petrol

What was lost /left behind:
2,090.000 british pounds.
416,940 tons of stores,
164,929 tons of petrol,
76,097 tons of ammo,
2,472 field guns,
20,548 motor cycles,
and lastly, 63,879 vehicles.

Over nine days 366,162 men were taken home.
68,111 were killed, wounded, or taken prisoner.
They lost 109 fighters and 177 other aircraft.

The author did years of research for this book (he interviewed 1070 eye witnesses, with details on each) He said that no one man could present truthfully the mammoth nine day exodus that involved countless million men and women.

I find it hard to imagine.

[colin jones]

Hi Lynn, Hijack away
I have made a solid table top for temporary use of keeping my bearing surfaces flat. I have used some 20mm plate I had here so I can use it again when finished. I have a centre and a diameter finder and some instant clamps for keeping it all together while the process is complete and slow cooling. I think I can cut the internal gear on my plasma and that will be a fantastic saving and a quick process.

[Bob Carriere]

....but can't figure out how you are going to fit in the balls.......

This is better than Popular Mechanics magazine.

Bob C

[colin jones]

Hi Bob, I have to weld two rings on top and the top one having a internal gear all round. Then I need to put the whole thing in my milling machine and cut a 3/4" grove the full distance around the top. The photos below show the first one welded and ground off and I had a prelim try at cutting gears on my plasma. I am quite happy with the result but I need to make time on the computer and draw a curved toothed ring for the last top section. There will be a bit of trial and error on that part I think. I am very happy with the result of the ring so far.

[Tim Lovelock]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Thank you Colin on the spring steel.

I will Hijack you thread just a little:
From: The Sands Of Dunkirk by Richard Collier 1961.
Page 265
Facts about DunKirk.
Gort's army brought back:
322 guns (artillery pieces?)
4,739 vehicles
533 motor cycles
32,303 tons of ammo
33,060 tons of stores
1,071 tons of petrol

What was lost /left behind:
2,090.000 british pounds.
416,940 tons of stores,
164,929 tons of petrol,
76,097 tons of ammo,
2,472 field guns,
20,548 motor cycles,
and lastly, 63,879 vehicles.

Over nine days 366,162 men were taken home.
68,111 were killed, wounded, or taken prisoner.
They lost 109 fighters and 177 other aircraft.

The author did years of research for this book (he interviewed 1070 eye witnesses, with details on each) He said that no one man could present truthfully the mammoth nine day exodus that involved countless million men and women.

I find it hard to imagine.

These are the apparent tank losses,
331 VI light tanks
77 Matilda 1's
23 Matilda 2's
184 Cruiser tanks

It's amazing the English could field anything but a cricket team after such horrendous losses.
And what a bonus for the Germans, I'd read once that up to the end of the war, most of their troops were moved either on foot or on horse back.
Cheers Tim

[Lynn Eades]

Colin, I continue to be amazed at your range of skills. Fantastic work. great to see and thank you for the details.

Tim I measured my carrier width = 6 foot 11 inches sand guard outer edge to outer edge.
So if all the vehicles lost at Dunkirk averaged the same width as a carrier, and they were parked side by side, then, with a 1 inch gap (that's allowing 7 feet per vehicle) they would form an unbroken line 84.688 miles, or 135.5 kilometers long.

I hope I've done that right.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

I placed a link to your thread in the closing stages of my article in KVE News on the Vickers MkVIA. I hope you may get even more regular 'thread watchers' from it, as your restorations are exceptional and deserve a wide audience.

Mike

For anyone who is interested to read about the 10 Vickers Light Tanks MkVIA that went to Australia, here is a link to the article that Mike Cecil wrote, it is on pages 20 to 26 in the newsletter:
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/43129...ac526b00db.pdf

It is incredible that 50% of them are now known to have survived, including Colin's two. Great work Colin, you obviously don't have too many interruptions during your working days!

regards, Richard

[colin jones]

Thankyou Lynn and Richard.
I have cut the ring gear and very happy with the result which was a concern as to how to do it but problem solved.

[David Dunlop]

Hi Colin.

Any known surviving crew members from either of these tanks still around that you know of? They might enjoy watching them get rolled out again once you are done.

David

[Mike Cecil]

Doubtful, based on the maths: say, 20 in 1940 +78 years = 98! Even 18 in 1940 will equal 96 years old. The tanks were last used in 1942 for training, so even then, an 18 year old trainee driver would be 94, if my maths is correct (I'm sure I'll be told if I'm wrong!)

Mike

[colin jones]

David, Mike,
I'm sure if there were any surviving crew from way back then they would be quite happy to see these getting restored.

I have just finished both ring gears and that was quite a job I have orders my 3/4" cutters for the mill and then cut the ball bearing grove in the top of each one and make a matching piece that will be bolted to the underside of the turret via some angle that also needs to be curved.

[Mike Cecil]

I agree, Colin, very happy to see 'their' tanks coming back to life in such a professional manner.

My comment was the likelihood of any crew being alive today, which I think is doubtful. But maybe, just maybe....

Mike

[lssah2025]

Bloody hell, I wish I had 1/10th of your ability!!!! Wish some of my toys were back across the pond, would be sending you some work if you wanted it!!!

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Colin,

I think I see where you are heading with this - what I cannot foresee at this point is how you are going to seal the ball-race against dust/dirt (which would bring it to a grinding halt in quick time) and how the turret will be kept on/in place.

I should be patient and wait and see, of course, as I'm sure you already have that worked out ..... but I'm not (patient, that is).

The speed at which you are working on this build is a bit intimidating. I'm only working on one little Ford GP, and taking years to do it!

Mike