help with identifcation 1944 dodge please

[Brian Gallaghan]

Can anyone help with any infomation on my 1944 dodge. I know it spent some time in the pacific islands in 1944 and was latter shipped to New Zealand. Engine number is t110L6 48230. Petty sure engine is original to this truck. The only body tag I can find is on the Left hand door pillar, chassis no 8924969. Thanks for any help,

[Mike K]

Not a Dodge scholar myself but it appears to be a 116" wheelbase but hard to tell. If it is a 116" wheelbase, the wheels are a somewhat odd 6 stud type Iv'e net seen before on that model. The cab looks to be of Nth American heritage, with the single piece door glass.

It could be a Frankenstein truck , somebody has thrown together from bits. T110L usually refers to a larger model Dodge, 30 cwt or 3 Tonner

[Tony Smith]

The T110L-6 ought to be a 136"wb with CMP-type split rims and an Eaton 2-speed rear differential. This truck appears to never had military blackout lights on the front guards, and is missing the radiator guard.

[Mike K]

If it has the 3 speed syncro gearbox, it is likely a T112 116" . Looking at Tony's chart, it might be the next size wheelbase ( 120" ? ) but I think that model were fitted with 17" rims. Whatever it is it is unusual.

I had a T112 116" ute for years as a everyday car , these are reliable vehicles, never had a problem with it. I picked up the command car body with the Dodge and trailer , up near West Wyalong NSW. Pic ,the day we found the CC body DEC 79.

[Mike K]

This might help or hinder

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=255

It's probably either a 120" 0r 133" model, looking at it again, it appears too short for a 116"

[gordon]

It looks a little odd - I'm thinking locally assembled.

The rear body looks odd, not commenting further than that.

Cab is standard 41-47 with 4 x 2 fuel tank location. Looks to me like it is right hand drive with single wiper - does the screen hinge out? most ANZAC trucks had the screen built in and fixed.

Axles and wheels are 41-47 one ton, WD series, normally found on pickups and panels. The short running boards would be right for a pickup configuration, and the tow hooks would be right for militarised civilian.

I'd guess it was a 41-47 WD one ton chassis, cab, and axles supplied for local assembly. Engine is longer Canadian light duty 3 ton T110 and while contemporary, is not original.

Check the cab plate chassis number against the actual stamping on left front chassis leg side, near front left spring front hanger. Is the wheelbase 116" or 120"? it is too short for the 133" wheelbase.

[Mike K]

New Zealand did import some odd ball vehicle types that were not seen over here in Aus. including a few unusual body types that collectors here seem to crave after. Stuff like two door coupes.

[Lang]

I would guess a 1946 model. Chrome trim etc. Short wheelbase 1 tonner - maybe 3/4 ton.

Here are two with the same wheels.

[Brian Gallaghan]

Thanks so much for all your input. No wonder i have struggled to identify my Dodge. Things are not always as they first appear.
I did some digging with the NZ transport agency and i have been given some registration details going back to 1967. No names or personal details due to privacy issues, but did give me a different engine number. T11635890
Chassis number is same as whats on the cab, but maybe the cab was changed early on in its life. It,s also listed as a flat deck truck.
I measured the wheelbase = 120 It has 11 leaf springs in the back.
It has 16'' split rim wheels and a full floating hypoid rear axle.
I have tried to find the number on the chassis rail but no luck, an i looking in the right place?

[Lang]

Yes, you have the chassis area.

I have found them close to the top of the rail in the first section back from the spring hanger. They are usually quite light - not boldly stamped and quite large, at least 1/2 inch.

Hope you didn't clean the paint off with a flapper disc or sanding disc as there is a chance you took the numbers with you - that is how lightly stamped some are. I suppose it depended on whether the "Hulk" or "Rosie the Riveter" was doing the stamping that day!

Lang

[Lang]

A bit of a mix it seems.

The T116 engine comes out of WD-20 and WD-21 built in 3 batches in 1940, 1941 and late 1945. It is a 1-ton vehicle. They were not built to a government order and it looks like they are civilian production. This is out of the USA book.

The chassis number is not a part of the USA production list but was allocated to Canadian production. A whole lot of these were built 8,922,942 through to 8,925,000. They are named model DD-2.

Lots of possibilities, a couple are:

1. The T116 engine is also not original and a replacement (still looking to see what DD-2 Canadian production engine numbers were).
2. The T116 engine was sent to Canada for fitting into the DD-2 models.

Looking for DD-2 production dates also.

Have a read of this. A few errors that I can see but it gives us a much better picture. Looks like the original engine was a Canadian long block not the short US block ie T116.
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hm...s/3710541.html

Lang

[Lang]

Here are Dodge Numbers. As you can see they can be found anywhere, any size, any depth.

The first one is a typical weapon carrier and this is good, most are hit much more lightly. The others are off 1940-47 Dodge light trucks.

[gordon]

Normally 1" below the top edge of the chassis rail, just behind front left spring, front hanger.

The T116 engine may well have been the original. The 120" wheelbase marks it as a one ton WD20 / DD2, and if original the short running boards would be for either a pickup or a flatbed. Normally a pickup body would have conventional rear springs and single wheels, while a flatbed would have heavier springs and maybe overload springs, and dual rears.

Those rear hubs will take dual wheels, but the rear dual wheels had a special small offset rim.

I didn't see an answer to whether it was RHD and was the screen fixed in place. If it is RHD, are the holes in the LEFT chassis rail for the left hand drive steering box setup drilled through? Normally they would be blank in one thickness of the rail. If they are all drilled through it may have started as a LHD truck.

[Lang]

Gordon

The body number given is Canadian production DD-2 and not in any US number series.

Being in NZ this is more than likely to be correct.

The T116 engine is a mystery. Did the Canadian trucks have a Canadian engine or were they fitted with the American engine? Seems very coincidental that any postwar engine change would have used the engine out of the exact equivalent US model- possible but.......

I am still looking for DD-2 production dates.

PS

Another interesting thing I discovered is the T-116 motor changed size without changing serial number like the early 1/2 ton Weapon Carrier.

The early weapon carrier changed from 201 cu in to 218 cu in with no obvious external changes. You could only tell from the engine number following the T-112 XXXXX

This vehicle T-116 changed mid-production from 218 cu in to the 230 cu in without any indication on the block. If you are ordering pistons you need to measure.

DD-2 apparently was in the late Canadian production so could be as late as 1947 - almost certainly civilian.





Lang

[Lang]

Just found this.

Dodge may have used a small child with a tack hammer to strike the number die, as the stamps are often shallow, and may be hard to find. Here are a few tips to make finding the number easier.

1. Clean the area down to bare metal, a wire wheel in a drill works well for this.

2. Clean a larger area then shown in the images, the number may be in a slightly different spot.

3. Getting the area wet (water works fine for this, or some light oil) can help make some numbers easier to read.

4. If the area is rusty or the number is hard to make out, take close up digital images of the number, and enlarge them on the computer. This trick often helps make out a hard to read number.

[gordon]

Originally Posted by Lang

Gordon

The T116 engine is a mystery. Did the Canadian trucks have a Canadian engine or were they fitted with the American engine? Seems very coincidental that any postwar engine change would have used the engine out of the exact equivalent US model- possible but.......

Lang

The Canadian military production seems to have standardised on the 25" long block 236.6 cu in engine, but I'd guess a Canadian-supplied T116 may well have had a shorter 23.5" US version in it. Not sure they'd a 25" version of the T116 though, my T116 here is 23.5" long. People talk about Canadian and American as though they were built in different countries ( I know ... ) but if you look at the physical location of Mound Road Detroit and Windsor Ontario they aren't that far apart.

[Brian Gallaghan]

well, I have sanded down to shinny metal with wet and dry paper and still no sign of a number, I'll keep looking and maybe widen my search area.
Yes, truck is RH drive and LH chassis rail is drilled for a steering box. Windscreen is fixed and has only one wiper.
Also was originally a 3 speed and the previous owner changed to a 4 speed which he said was more suited to the steep roads in his area.

[Lynn Eades]

My book states:
T116 engine used in:
Truck model WD 20 (41 to 47)
Truck model WD 21 (41 to 47)
and Truck model WDX (46 to 47)
It lists the engine as a 3 1/4" x 4 5/8" which is a 230 cu.in. (same as WC 3/4 tonners)
Lang the block will be the same. The 218 cu.in. has a 4 3/8" stroke as against the 4 5/8" stroke of the 230. Probably the conrods are different as well. Every thing else could be the same.
This is a MOTORS Manual, so no military trucks in this book. Definately a commercial if not civvy truck.
The WC1 to WC11 had a T207 engine. (218)
WC 12 to WC20 had a T211 engine. (218)
WC21 to WC41 had a T215 engine. (230)
The above are all 1941 1/2 ton 4x4.
The T112 engines were only found in 4x2 trucks (also 1941 1/2 ton) I have no info on the size of these engines.

Sorry Lang, I just read your post #11.

[gordon]

Originally Posted by Brian Gallaghan

well, I have sanded down to shinny metal with wet and dry paper and still no sign of a number, I'll keep looking and maybe widen my search area.
Yes, truck is RH drive and LH chassis rail is drilled for a steering box. Windscreen is fixed and has only one wiper.
Also was originally a 3 speed and the previous owner changed to a 4 speed which he said was more suited to the steep roads in his area.

We are combining some trucks then. The 120" wheelbase matches the axles as a 41-47 one ton, either US or Canadian. I'd suspect US as the "chassis" number is on the door plate and not actually on the chassis, though it could be either.
The one ton would originally have come with a four speed, the three speed was only standard on the half ton. It would have been pickup or flatbed originally - there was no 120" WB panel van body, just 116" or 133"

The cab looks like an ANZAC export civilian cab for local assembly, possibly of a half ton 4 x 2, which would originally have a three speed in it and a T112 engine

T110 Engine is Canadian light duty three ton, most likely military ( although there was civilian T110 ). Steering gear and controls could have come from the T110 donor or the RHD export cab.

[David Herbert]

Originally Posted by Brian Gallaghan

Also was originally a 3 speed and the previous owner changed to a 4 speed which he said was more suited to the steep roads in his area.

It is possible that "originally a 3 speed" refers to the truck as aquired by the previous owner and that it had aquired the 3 speed with one of its engine changes.

David

[Mike K]

The T112 engine in my 46 ute was the 3 3/8" X 4 1/16" 25" block . Same engine in the 41 Plymouth utes I had.

I have never seen an example of that 120" 3/4 ton wheelbase here in Aust. , the Dodges here seem to be either 116" or the longer 3 Tonner

[Lang]

Gordon

I have the full production serial numbers for both USA and Canada. They had separate allocations from at least 1933 and I have looked at many pages of numbers and find no vehicle (even those "identical" models produced in each country) which carry the same number series.

The numbers given are unquestionably a Canadian DD-2

The USA production WD-20 and WD-21 were civilian vehicles produced in two batches 1940 and 1941 (before USA entered the war) and in a third batch from October 1945 to 1947(after the war)

I am still trying to get the Canadian DD-2 production dates which MAY include the "British" war period. if this is the case they may have found themselves painted green?

Lang

[Lang]

This is why Dodges are so hard to identify - 50 different models in one year.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X4rhNht0T4

[Lang]

Found It!

The truck in question is:

Canadian built DD-2 one ton either 120 or 133 inch wheelbase.

This serial number was from a batch built 1942 (there were 3 other batches built post war to 1947). It is not listed as a government order. There was a separate batch of DD-2 built in Canada in 1940 for the US Government, they had T98 engines.

IT DID HAVE a T116 engine the same as the equivalent US WD-20/21. This truck has been re-engined with a T110 probably out of a 3 tonnner,

This information comes from the official Chrysler dealer serial code book for every Canadian vehicle from 1915 to 1953. I also have the US production edition to use as cross reference.

Lang

[Brian Gallaghan]

Thank you all so much for your help, I had tried doing my own research but just couldn,t get anywhere.
I now know what my truck started out as, and that it has had a few changes over the years, with a interesting history.

A real credit to Dodge for making the parts of these trucks so interchangable

Thanks again
Brian G

[gordon]

The one ton was a popular truck to convert to an ambulance, donated from various charitable organisations and so on.

I have images somewhere of a transitional truck, with 1941 sheetmetal but still with the earlier 1939 / 1940 Budd disc wheels.

I have seen images of them in use as general hacks in North Africa and Egypt, and I suspect they did remain in production during WW2 but in relatively small quantities for essential civilian use. I have a WD 21 panel van from late 1940, after the model year cutoff, that was produced at the Los Angeles plant.

[Lang]

Brian

Your T110-L6 engine comes from a short wheelbase (136") 3 ton Dodge truck. These were in continuous Canadian production throughout the war.

Lang

[Lang]

While we are concentrating on 1 ton Dodges we forget that Chrysler Canada continued to produce thousands of similar Fargo branded machines right through the war.

Apart from a bit of trim and Fargo marked engines (identical to the same Dodge branded engine) they were the same truck. Many of these were to government orders.

Plymouth and Desoto branded trucks also came down the line.

Here is an Australian Fargo.