CMP Ford F60S

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Jacques,

You wrote "The engine number is actually on the transmission bell housing stamped just above the inspection cover as in example in photo.
I believe the thinking at the time was an engine would likely be replaced but the transmission would more likely stay in a vehicle. This was to keep track of the vehicles identity more so than the motor"

The 'G' in the Ford 'engine' number actually stands for the combination of a 3-3/16/95hp/239 cubic inch engine coupled with a 4-speed heavy-duty truck gearbox, so the number actually indicates more than just the engine, but the complete engine-gearbox assembly. So perhaps the thinking was it didn't matter where the ID number was stamped? As you know, in Aust, the 'engine' number was stamped on the front top flat of the engine block and not on the gearbox. (It was also stamped on the front right top face of the chassis in Aust assembled Fords).

Mike

[rob love]

It should be easy enough to compare the serial number and compare it to Oct, Nov, Dec 41 known serials, and Feb/Mar 42 serial numbers to see if this serial falls in between those. A list like Peter Ford's infoex would have solved this quickly.
I also think on the first Monday of the year, the guy making the plates buggered it. After all, he had been changing the day on the embosser daily, the month monthly, and never had to really think about the year.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Hi Jacques,


The 'G' in the Ford 'engine' number actually stands for the combination of a 3-3/16/95hp/239 cubic inch engine coupled with a 4-speed heavy-duty truck gearbox, so the number actually indicates more than just the engine, but the complete engine-gearbox assembly. So perhaps the thinking was it didn't matter where the ID number was stamped? As you know, in Aust, the 'engine' number was stamped on the front top flat of the engine block and not on the gearbox. (It was also stamped on the front right top face of the chassis in Aust assembled Fords).

Mike

Hi Mike,

The photo I posted of the number stamped on the gearbox is on my F-15A. It corresponds with ARN 55166 and had an Australian cab and diamond plate floor so I assume it was Australian assembled. I've had three chassis and none were stamped. All had Australian cabs. Another collector believes not all chassis were stamped.
Both my engines are 1946 blocks but have no Ford s/n's. They do have later state issued numbers that are located at the top left rear of the block. Will have to look at a wartime built engine to see the serial numbers you mention. Being 1946 engines perhaps they were replacement engines and therefore not stamped by Ford?

Cheers,

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Jacques,

Those early Ford Cab 13 CMPs are a mixed lot before the local production was streamlined and the amount (and method) of import v local parts were sorted out. Further along in the same book, 55401 was a fully-imported Canadian-built F15 with a '99TF' prefix number stamped on the gearbox, and when I got it, an Army-replacement engine 2G37711F, with that number stamped on the flat of the engine block. There was no stamping on the chassis rail.

Not come across any wartime Aust Ford-assembled vehicles that don't have the engine/transmission number stamped on the flat of the chassis rail, and I've had several over the years (IIY, 01T, F15A, Dingo), but 'never say never', as the saying goes. Others with a greater range of personal experience than mine might like to contribute their observations to this discussion.

Nevertheless, the main thrust of my comment was that, to be precise, the 'G' is an engine and transmission combination indicator, not an engine number alone.


Mike

[rob love]

According to the F60L parts manual, the Cab 13 was introduced at serial 21566. Your serial (25938) seems to be about 4372 down the line, which is surprising that they pumped out that many in less than a month.

[RichCam]

Guys, I concur on the 42 verses the 41 year of production and it would appear that the engine/transmission matches the ID tag. I guess I will be celebrating an 80th Birthday on Tuesday for the F60S!
Now that I have the box off of the frame, I have been able to look more closely at the hydraulic lift mechanism. According to the brass name plate, it is an Edwards Bros (Tipper) Ltd. from Bolton, near Manchester, UK. Considering that it looks to be a professional installation, the aluminum hydraulic pump unit bolts into the air pump housing location on the transmission, up and down hoist activation left is located through the floorboard on the left side of the driver's seat. My question to the MLU gurus is, did Edwards Bros sell their hoists in Canada? I would think it a bit odd and expensive for a Canadian made F60S to go to the UK to have a civilian hoist installed on it and then have it shipped back to Canada for post war service. As always, comments welcome.

[David Dunlop]

Hi Richard.

That is the first data plate I have ever seen referencing a CMP built to fulfill two possible Contracts. Is it possible to track that contract down to see what it is all about?

My feeble thought at the moment is if that vehicle was indeed built 5 January 1942, the Battle of the Atlantic was peaking between January and July 1942 in terms of shipping losses suffered. Maybe two identical contracts were combined, the thought being anything intended for England would still be used to complete the Canadian Contract if shipping came to a halt.

Second point. Post war England was broke and any manufacturing would be working flat out to sell product anywhere they could in the Commonwealth. Edward Brothers would have been very familiar with CMP’s and it would have been nothing for them to custom design their Tipper Kits for any Ford or Chevrolet CMP and ship it anywhere for local installation. By todays standards, postwar shipping was cheap. Lots of cargo/freighters heading everywhere. The ad you posted shows distributors for this product across the UK. They probably had a Canadian distributor as well.

So you probably have a very unusual CMP, built at an interesting time during the war, that stayed in Canada and got a very interesting civilian conversion in its post war life. You lucky guy!

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

All in all a very interesting truck. I think we agree the delivery date is a miss strike, as stated by Keith ten years ago.

Edbro has been around since 1916 and they still thrive: https://www.edbro.com/en/profile.html
They did deliver tippers during WW2, but mostly on British trucks IIRC. Reading that they always exported conversion kits, I think this is most likely a postwar conversion.

[RichCam]

Only -30 here this morning, good day for working in the shop.
I drained the oil out of the flathead last week, it wasn't terrible but I'm glad I did it. New oil is going in this week - just a 10W30 for now. I pulled the plugs out and stuck in the hand crank after cleaning out the air intake. It had some old bugs, maple tree seeds and other bits and pieces of dirt. With the hand crank, I was able to turn the engine over. After refilling with oil, I will hand crank it a few more times.
The battery cables look almost original, they are hard and cracked. I am going to replace them so I have a GOOD POSITIVE Ground and a reliable NEGATIVE connection to the starter solenoid. Once I have the starter working, I will do a compression test on each one of the cylinders.

[RichCam]

Ok, getting to the starter solenoid isn't as easy as it sounds. Since I'm not ready to take the cab off yet, I have decided to pull up the floorboard under the seat. Seat was easy to remove but the countersunk floorboard screws didn't look they have been removed for a good 80 years or so. Anyways, lots of penetrating oil, heat and the good old drill out on the diehards and the floorboard is now removed. I want to make sure the starter solenoid works properly and that I have good power to the coil and the dash.
Question - what is the round knob connected to a little change that goes through the chassis rail above the battery and underneath the driver's side of the cab?

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by RichCam

Question - what is the round knob connected to a little change that goes through the chassis rail above the battery and underneath the driver's side of the cab?

It's the connection for the flexible tyre inflation hose.

On Ford trucks, the PTO Air Compressor was fitted to the right side of the gearbox, so the air line and connection were on the RHS chassis rail (Chev vehicles had these on the LHS).

[RichCam]

Thanks Tony, that makes perfect sense. If I am not wrong, the aftermarket hydraulic pump has been installed in place of the PTO air compressor but I will check when I am back in the shop.

[RichCam]

On and off, I have been working on the F60S over the winter. To date, I have replaced the 6V battery, added a battery bracket, rewired power to the starter, relocated the Starter Motor Relay from the frame channel (that is a nasty place to get at) to under the driver seat against the vertical mudguard. New wires have been run up to the dash for the starter button and I am know working my way through the ignition system. I am going to install an ignition key. Engine turns over with the starter, I can get spark from the coil but I am now into the guts of the points, condenser and spark plug wires. I will post pictures shortly.

[RichCam]

Hello all,
I spent the summer working (not fun) rewiring my 1970 VW Bus (fun) and racing my 2006 Chev Impala (most fun) but now with fall in full swing, it is time to get back to the F-60S. I have spark and some compression, I now need fuel and air so the Ford 94 carburetor is being rebuilt, thanks to Ecklers.

[RichCam]

Well, with one less distraction (sold the VW Bus) and our first race not until later next month, I now need to get the F60S running. I have rebuilt the carburetor and I have rebuilt the distributor. I have used a timing fixture to adjust the point and the advance. I have spark, I have fuel and I have compression. Unfortunately, I am not getting combustion. A friend dropped by with a PECO system and we were able to capture TDC and spark timing, it seems that my "spark" is happening after TDC, on the downstroke. According to everything I have seen and read, I need to be about 5 degrees before TDC. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I need to do to get this 42 flathead 8 to pop, bang and run?
Do I need to plug those vacuum lines at the bottom of the carburetor to improve draw into the intake?

[Dave Newcomb]

Early Ford V8 Club is International. Lots of members in Americas and the EU, and a great source for help and references. Been around over 50 yrs. Dave in Oregon USA