WTB: FN Cdn EX1 items

[Lynn Eades]

I take it that these are semi auto as apposed to full auto.

[rob love]

The EX series of rifles were originally selective fire. The army pinned the change levers after user trials and the steering committee decided that the guns were not good as full auto. The C1 rifles were all semi automatic. There was a variation on that with the C1D (later C1A1D) which was intended for naval boarding parties. It had the automatic change lever and was selective fire. There was also the C2 rifle, which was the LMG for the section. It featured a heavier barrel, bipod, 30 round magazine, and selective fire change lever. Seems like everyone ended up burning their hand on those naked barrels at one point.

Here in Canada the gun has to be grandfathered (in this case, registered back around 92) and the owner must be also grandfathered (in this case continuously owned a converted auto in this classs since 92). I do not fall into that class, and as well this gun had not been registered, so it is now deactivated.

The guys who do own the full auto and semi auto guns here in Canada cannot get the permits to take them to the range to shoot anymore.

[Lynn Eades]

Your C1 looks like our L1A1(made in Lithgow Australia for N.Z.) your fore wood is the same pattern as the first L1A1's. the difference looks to be that our L1A1's have a more up and down pistol grip, whereas the C1 appears to have the more sloping style of a FAL.
It is highly illegal for anyone in New Zealand (other than the military) to fire a full auto, but some people have licences to own them as collectors items, (under strict conditions)
The N.Z. army also had a heavy barrelled version in selective fire as a section LMG. Sounds very similar to the Canadian version.

[rob love]

Both those photos are actually of the EX1. Here are some photos of my C1A1 and C2A1:





I have seen a number of the NZ marked Sterlings make it onto the Cdn market, along with NZ no8 rifles and, of course, NZ marked no4s. But for some reason the NZ FNs did not make it into our market. When were they phased out of service? It may well be that they got released after the FNs became prohibited in this country.

The Canadian and the Australian FNs are very similar. There are rumours that the Canadian Arsenals Limited made some of the barrels and parts for the Australian Heavy Barrel FN, although I think I saw somewhere that this was not true. Our early C2 top covers ended up going to Australia and (with some modification) used on the Australian HB FN.
I need one of those top covers for my collection, and of course, since they were almost all exported, they are very hard to find here.

[Rob Beale]

I think they were phased out about 1990 or so. We hardly ever saw the heavy barrelled version, as they seemed to be used by units like RNZE. We had GPMG as section auto till the mid 80's when there was a problem and they were withdrawn from Infantry sections, to be replaced by Bren LMG in .303! I used to haul the ammo crates out of the rubbish trailer after shoots.

When the SLR went, we used M16A1 exclusively for a while, till the trials for a replacement selected the Steyr AUG. Made in OZ, but different to theirs in the safety catch arrangement. I recall the NZ safety catch stuck out towards your belly while you walked, and would often get knocked from Safe to semi while you walked!

I exercised with a platoon from Townsville and looked at their steyrs, but don't recall the differences now.

Incidentally, we heard from School of Infantry staff who conducted the trialls that many preferred the Canadian M16A2, which had a longer barrel life than the US version they trialled. Politics ruled and they went with the Steyr.

Back to topic...I still prefer the feel of the SLR, so well done on your preservation of important history.
Rob
ex RNZIR

[rob love]

By GPMG, do you mean a M1919 Browning? Were they in the A4 configuration, or with the bipod/carry handle A6 style? Either way, that's one heavy gun to be hauling around.

The GPMG (Browning) was generally phased out in the early 90s here in Canada, and replaced with the FN MAG. Mind you, I was still being issued the Browning here in Shilo for the top of the M113A2 until 1997. I think we were one of the last units to still be using them.

[Rob Beale]

In NZ we used the FN MAG in L7A1 version, although our troops in Vietnam carried the M60. The FN has been reissued for many years since their temporary withdrawl I mentioned, but mainly for SFMG use in Infantry Support Companies. The 50 cal Browning has made a comeback here too

The replacement weapon for section use was the C9 or FN Minimi. I see that has many names too around the world. They are already talking about replacement though!

I feel priviliged to have used the Bren

Rob

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally Posted by rob love

The EX series of rifles were originally selective fire. The army pinned the change levers after user trials and the steering committee decided that the guns were not good as full auto. The C1 rifles were all semi automatic. There was a variation on that with the C1D (later C1A1D) which was intended for naval boarding parties. It had the automatic change lever and was selective fire. There was also the C2 rifle, which was the LMG for the section. It featured a heavier barrel, bipod, 30 round magazine, and selective fire change lever. Seems like everyone ended up burning their hand on those naked barrels at one point.

Here in Canada the gun has to be grandfathered (in this case, registered back around 92) and the owner must be also grandfathered (in this case continuously owned a converted auto in this classs since 92). I do not fall into that class, and as well this gun had not been registered, so it is now deactivated.

The guys who do own the full auto and semi auto guns here in Canada cannot get the permits to take them to the range to shoot anymore.

Rob:

You didn't make mention of the FN C1A2...the 8L series, last of production, which had three mods which CAL suggested to DND that it have its own separate NSN. Didn't happen of course...lots of confusion with Wpns Tech and Bin Rats.

I've traced mine from manufacture to OPP in Englehart, to UK for FTR, then back to Canada.

Lovely piece of kit!

[rob love]

C1A2 nomenclature was not adopted. The nickname "8L" series is usually applied to those rifles, o fwhich around 5000 were made. My C1A1 is also from the OPP lot, which collectors source brought in to the country. If I recall, my rifle was from the Missauga detachment. I have been keeping my eyes open for a non-8L C1.

[EDDIE]

HELLO, ANYONE KNOW THE VALUE OF AN ISHAPORE FN RIFLE HERE IN CANADA? THANKS. EDDIE.

[charlie fitton]

I remember well the EX's from jump school, man were they beat up. More than a few parts fell off mine.

We were one of the last units to get the C7's (even though they are made here in our hometown) - what a difference from the C1. I prefferred the iron sights, but maybe that's because bi-focals and optics don't mix well.

A few years back I had the chance to shoot a C2 in a section competition for re-enactment units. Ser no was 0La002.

I broke it.

The owner didn't mind much though - said he'd be welding it up soon anyway.

[Pete Z]

Originally Posted by EDDIE

HELLO, ANYONE KNOW THE VALUE OF AN ISHAPORE FN RIFLE HERE IN CANADA? THANKS. EDDIE.

Dewat Ishy FN's generally sell for anywhere between $300 to $400. L1A1's command a higher price, something in the order of $500 - $600, and C1A1's (if you can find one) go for more than that. I am always shopping for a cheaper dewat Indian FN to tart up as a C1A1 for display in my M38A1 (whenever I get it done). I'd love to get a real C1A1, but I can't justify the cost to just have it rattling around in my jeep, plus I would always be worried about someone stealing it.

BTW Rob, very nice collection!

[maple_leaf_eh]

Log on to canadiangunnutz dot com and start prowling. There are 59,000 members on that forum. Someone will have one for sale. Any seller will have to have it deactivated before shipping. Expect to pay for that on top of the purchase.