T-16 S/N 5399 T.D. 97377 Restoration

[horsa]

Hey Jim, looking forward to seeing updated shots of your jeep project as well when you get a chance. I know its tough to find time to work on it with the kids and the day job keeping you busy. My youngest figures my carrier project is just a third job for me except she can help out now and then.

Hey Jordan, I've got the exhaust system parts and mufflers to finish assembly but have put it off while working out other issues on the fuel system which is now complete. Should be posting photos of the two fuel tanks and associated parts this week. For now, I've got two shots showing the gunner position with the seat and lower bins finally installed. Plus a pair of really nice 1942 dated reproduction rubber grips





Not sure on the tracks being too tight Pablo. I'm still a novice at this but each side has a sag between the track return rollers which matches the specifications in the T-16 manuals. If you were comparing some of the older photos, they were taken when everything was still tight and had not fully freed up yet. Think the links are still loosening up and will end up with even more slack by the time I can get it out into a field for some real drive time. Attached shot below is from today when I was cutting tracks into the front yard and side lot which is all hilly. No problems with the tracks so far doing spins or going up and down hill.

[Jordan Baker]

HI David

Your T-16 looks amazing. Its nice to see another vehicle restored to such a high standard. Plus those handgrips really finish it off.

[Ledsel]

OHH OHHH!!!!! BOBO on front fender!!

[horsa]

Yes, the off-side front fender got bent down into the tracks when I misjudged side clearance coming into the garage after a short drive a few weeks ago. To allow space to move around the vehicles in the small garage, I need to enter the garage with about 2-3 inches of space on that side and then once past the doors I have 12-15 inches to the wall so its only tight at the opening. I barely clipped the wooden beam on the edge of the bricks and it snapped as can be seen in the following two shots. Needless to say, it was a very sad Wyvern I used my floor jack with a 4x4 board to raise the fender up and out of the way from the tracks but have yet to repair it properly.





Maybe this was karma since the alternate unit designation I've been contemplating is 1st Battalion, Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa (M.G.) of the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division. They were a 4.2" Mortar Carrier Unit during WWII so the 64 markings would remain the same but the 43rd Wessex Wyven would be replaced with a 3rd Division colored square with Maple Leaf.

[Ledsel]

Whaaad da wife say? Whaaad da wife say? That was close to a brick job!!

[horsa]

Bricks were the first thing I thought off once I stopped cursing...Fortunately the Cedar 2x8 chose to split and let go of the house framing as opposed to pulling the wall over with it. The wife wasn't too worried about the house since she knows I'm pretty good about fixing and maintaining things. She was more concerned with me damaging her art work since she painted the Wyverns on the front and rear fenders. It helps to have a wife that is into WWII history, weapons and vehicles. Course instead of jewelry and dresses, I have to keep her bribed with things like ammunition for her Sten. Then there’s the B-17 flight she went on last weekend so she could swing a 50 caliber MG around from the waist gunner position just for the experience. She said it was only fair since I’ve had the privilege of parachuting with the British Pathfinder Group at Normandy and Arnhem with round chute from an invasion marked C-47. Guess we all have to pay one way or the other but I consider myself lucky with her support of my interests.

[alleramilitaria]

dave
i just sugest that you move to flat ground, living on a hillside with about a 20% grade for about 1/2 mile like you do could make for a fun ride.

[horsa]

The following series of images show the gunner side fuel tank with all of the components progressively added. Figured they might be of interest since almost all of the T-16s seem to have an alternate fuel system from what they were designed to use, especially the Swiss modification of a single large fuel tank in the rear over the tracks and differential.

First image shows the fuel tank inside its protective liner with the top of the liner not yet installed.



Next we put the top of the liner on, attach the sender and fuel line, and then bolt on the fuel tank hold down bracket. It uses a bolt at the back to press the bracket down and it has two threaded rods at the front to pull the bracket down to a mounting point on the floor of the T-16. Its pretty close to how the manual shows it but not perfect.



A locker gets bolted to the top of each fuel tank hold down bracket and the fuel tank filler comes up through the bottom. The back of the locker is angled to provide clearance for the rear bolt in the hold down bracket.



This shot simply shows the locker with the lid closed. The four raised squares on the lid are for holding a seat frame in place.



And lastly there is a shot showing a seat cushion on top of the locker. I still haven't build the frames for the seats as I am sorting out how much space is needed for the 4.2-inch mortar bomb racks which will be over the track sponsons. The upper cover for the engine housing is sloped so the cushion can hang over the locker but the angle of the shot makes it appear to be in the way. Surprisingly it all fits fairly well but there won't be a lot of space for people once everything else is bolted up.



This final shot shows the fuel tank and locker on the driver side of the vehicle. The locker is virtually identical to the gunner side but it has a divider and a place for very pistol cartridges. As if sitting on top of the fuel tank wasn't bad enough, they had to build in a place for pyrotechnic devices which point downwards at the tank.

[horsa]

Just got finished reducing the size of all the photographs in this message thread by 20 percent. They are all hosted out on a public photobucket site so hopefully they will load faster now.

[RichardT10829]

I shall use this resto as inspiration for mine ! i just hope i can follw your lead what an absolutely fantastic job you have done !

[horsa]

Hey Richard,

Looks like you have a real challange there as well. At least most of what you need is flat metal and there are others who have fabricated what you are missing. Just a matter of tracking them down over time for patterns to copy so you aren't having to ship things internationally.

One thing on big restorations is to not get hung up on a single thing. If you can break tasks into groups, you'll be able to do little things on several different parts/sections during the same time period. Allows a change of pace and an easy way to transition from one thing to the next if you get stuck needing information or small parts. Makes for a lot of juggling but suddenly the vehicle will begin taking shape.

Two really critical things are to take as many digital photos as you can prior to taking things apart since they are good for reference when you put things back together. And anything that comes off should be labeled. Use a marker and make notes on the big parts and put little parts and examples of removed nuts in bolts into labeled bags to keep things sorted out. You don't want to forget how the puzzle goes back together when the time comes.

[RichardT10829]

Thanks David, through work I deal with alot of exhibits, i will be using the same method of labelling and boxing for the project.

[horsa]

Didn't get much done over the holidays but managed to finish the exhaust system. Attached a few shots below for reference.













Sure runs smoother and a lot more quiet now. Plus its nice to be able to direct the exhaust out of the garage while its parked and running. Need to install the rear armour that protects the differential and then its on to the wood pieces that go along the edges of the armoured walls.

[Ledsel]

Is that green grass? Must be nice!

[horsa]

Nope, what you see in the background is vines that are used for groundcover in a rough area under some trees. Temps here have been down to freezing a few times this winter but then it bounces back into the mid-70s to 80s a day or two later. I need to take advantage of it being reasonably cooler and get some heavier outdoor projects done before summer comes rolling back in.

[horsa]

Never could source any original bomb carriers for the 4.2" rounds so ended up fabricating my own. The T-16s that were used in the mortar platoons could have 48 bombs in bins over the tracks but the variations I'm building will only have them over one track behind the gunner. Have a single 2" and 4.2" round laid out for size reference.



Shot shows the bomb bins with twelve carriers installed (24 rounds) while doing the test fitting. Still need to build the divider panel from the engine compartment at the rear which allows for carriage of twelve PIAT rounds in four smaller carriers.



This picture shows the angle iron rail that was used in place of the side skirts. Allowed easy access to the tracks without having to be removed and provided a continuous place to stand so bombs could be quickly and easily loaded and unloaded.



And this last shot shows the bins from the rear along with the wood trim along the edge of the armor which is finally installed.

[carrierbarry]

Hi David
Your T16 looks fantastic well done.

I have a question about the sender units in the fuel tanks.
I have the same looking sender units on my fuel tanks but there are two wires coming off.
One to the center the same as in the picture and a second one attached to the 6 outer attaching screws.
I don't understand why two wires?
Are your sender units new?
If so, where or what are they off.

Regards

Barry

[horsa]

Hey Barry,

I have NOS fuel tank senders in my reproduction tanks. Rod Shaver has them available for sale for the T-16 but I don't know for sure if they would work accurately in other universal carriers due to fuel tank size differences and the T-16 being a 12-volt system.

The second wire on your sender is probably a dedicated ground. The screws used to connect the sender to the tank normally do the job but corrosion, paint or loose connections can mess with the ground and cause the gauge to read off or not work at all. I know people with jeeps often solder a second wire onto the sender to guarentee a good ground.

[RichardT10829]

David, you are a testiment to any restoration, surely this vehicle is worthy of a magazine feature ! i cant get over how perfect it is ! when mine finally arrives i only hope she turns out a fraction as good as your T16 the attention to every detail and clearly you are a perfectionist, if there was a concours class for MV's i reckon this one would set the bench mark

i love reading this thead

well done matey you truelly are an inspiration to us all !


Richie

[horsa]

Appreciate the compliments Richard but the restoration is far from perfect. The hull had a lot of pitting which is still present and will remain so. It was a less than ideal specimen to start with for a restoration but the trade and cash price for the rusty bucket was the best I could afford on my meger budget. I'd been looking at carriers since the mid-80's and much nicer examples could have been had for less money back then but I had too many other projects and interests to branch into armor at the time.

I'm happy with the outcome so far considering what I started with. Being cheap, I don't mind putting in long hours on the project to save money. You'll soon learn all sorts of new skills once you get your hands on the carrier you recently bought in Canada. I'm now an expert at lots of things I'll likley never need to do again. Its been a good experience, one I'd highly recommend to others.

[horsa]

Got that last ammunition bin divider finished and installed into the rear gunner side of the hull. It was for twelve PIAT bombs in four carriers and the extra space was where other assorted gear like the field cooker was kept.



Wireless Number 19 Set is installed on the driver side. Still have a lot of testing to do with it but initially it seems to want to play. Power supply spins up fine and the power indicator light comes on. The light on the control box will light up if I switch it and the one up front with the driver to the "B" set so that is functioning properly. It was to alert the wireless operator that nobody was monitoring the "A" set. The control unit in the front has two dongles for the driver and gunner headsets. A third control unit is behind the gunner armour with two more dongles as there are two seats wedged in between the mortar bombs and the engine. It's one of the "Call Commander" types so they can only listen to intercom in theory or push the panic button which should create a tone in the other headsets.



And these last two shots show the armoured wing installed with temporary bolts and some of the toys in the racks. First shot you can see three mortar aiming rods stored behind the Bren. Another Bren is on the opposite outer hull wall but it isn't visible here.



Rifles, PIAT and fire extinguisher are on this side of the armoured wing. Sure would be tough getting to the extinguisher in an emergency.

[tankbarrell]

Tis a thing of beauty! Well done on a fantastic restoration.
Do you have a source for the catches on your rear bin? They are the same as used in Sherman internal stowage and I am in need of some.

Adrian

[horsa]

Hey Adrian,

It took me a long time to trace the history of those latches from the original WWII manufacturer through all the later companies that either bought the earlier businesses as they went bankrupt or ultimately purchased the manufacturing rights to them. The people with the current rights (as of March 2007) to the items are Shepherd Caster Corporation in Michigan. Their web address is www.shepherdcasters.com but they only sell parts to other companies which are their qualified distributers. I’d recommend you contact them through their web site eMail links and tell them the parts you are looking for and they should be able to recommend a distributer in the UK or Europe for you.

For the parts, the fastener is number 505564 and the strike is number 505555. To keep things confusing, some of their internal catalogs show the fastener as ZLA1002x and the strike as ZL1023X-B. The actual description when I got a sample from the manufacturer direct showed the fastener as Bassick Parts ZLA1002PS/LW17 and the strike as Bassick Parts ZL1023PS/LS29. Prices will vary with quantity but for reference, the fasteners are less than $5 each and the strikes are less than $1 each.

[David Ellery]

Hi David. Outstanding work on your T16, you have a very thorough eye for detail if that makes sense Your Bomb Carriers, could you tell me what you made them out of as I'd like to do the same for the British 3 inche Mortar. Keep up the good work and posts cheers David...

[horsa]

Just posted you a PM for a contact in your part of the world who can likely provide WWII surplus 3-inch bomb carriers. The 3-inch pattern have always seemed to be available even here in the USA. It's the 2-inch and PIAT patterns which are hard to find. And the 4.2-inch pattern don't seem to exist anymore which is why I had to resort to making my own.

Essentially the tubes are rolled cardboard and I ordered them from a place that could turn them out with the needed inside diameter, wall thickness and overall length that I needed. I used a hole saw to cut 4.2" wooden disks which I then bored 1.5" holes in the center to hold the fuzed bombs inside. The disks got nailed to the inside of the tube while a round was inside to ensure they stayed centered and flat. Then I rolled the disks in a tin filled with lacquer so they would get coated inside and outside. It dries quickly and will make them water resistant. I used an amber tinted lacquer since it matches early to mid-war originals I had for the 3-inch pattern. They quit doing this later in the war to save on materials but I want them to last so treated mine even though the carrier represents a D-Day+ time period. The black bands are packing crate straps with crimp clips. They get nailed to wooden spacers that I cut out with a skill saw (jig saw in some parts of the world). The end caps are made from sheet metal with the edges welded on. Originals would have been pressed but you can't really tell once painted. They have a strap guide spot welded to the end that opens just as the originals had. The handle and closing strap are actually a wartime double buckle web strap that I had available here and they fit onto another short crimped piece of flat metal strap which was patterned after the type used on all other mortar bomb carriers. Quite a production but doing them over a few weekends like an assembly line made it go quickly. Also got the opportunity to teach my kids about WWII English Cottage Industry

[tankbarrell]

David,

thanks for the contact on the clamps, getting prices as I type!

Regards,

Adrian

[Nigel Watson]

Lovely job David. Always brilliant to see these machines given the treatment. You couldn't motor it up to South Carolina this July and give me a shot in it? That would be a nice wee run for it!!! Will be over on me hols!

Nigel

[horsa]

Hey Nigel,

Might be a problem with that run. Its 1150 miles from Austin, Texas to central South Carolina. Not sure if me and the carrier are up to 38 hours of continous driving at 30 mph

I've still got to finish cleaning up the panels that cover the engine compartment but after that, I'll shoot a series of photos with the vehicle outside and fully loaded up for you. Wasn't sure if you still planned to do a Vol III with modern photos or not.

We have a WWII vehicle rally here in Texas mid-March so that is where I plan to really break everything in. The fields in that area have a nice lush Normandy look to them. Good tank hunting ground.

[Nigel Watson]

Originally Posted by horsa

Hey Nigel,

Might be a problem with that run. Its 1150 miles from Austin, Texas to central South Carolina. Not sure if me and the carrier are up to 38 hours of continous driving at 30 mph

I've still got to finish cleaning up the panels that cover the engine compartment but after that, I'll shoot a series of photos with the vehicle outside and fully loaded up for you. Wasn't sure if you still planned to do a Vol III with modern photos or not.

We have a WWII vehicle rally here in Texas mid-March so that is where I plan to really break everything in. The fields in that area have a nice lush Normandy look to them. Good tank hunting ground.

It would be fun though! I'd come back with you only if you would give me a shot of the controls!! Thought your speed limit was 50mph anyway!

I'd appreciate a selection of photos of your restoration and finished machine for Volume 3.

Nigel

[horsa]

Manual says the top speed is 33mph for the T-16 which would be regulated by the governor. I still haven't found a correct Waltham speedometer and haven't installed a more common jeep type yet so don't know what my actual top speed is. Haven't gotten into fourth gear either way since I haven't been out in a field for a real run yet and am really limited in what I can do driving on my side lot and quarter mile of flat road in the housing area.

I do know from past experience with my jeep, that a long trip can be pretty rough on the passengers and the vehicle when you're trying to pedal at max speed on a hot day. Nothing like driving an open air vehicle without seatbelts doing 50mph on the highway with regular cars and trucks blowing past you on both sides going 80 plus mph. Only good thing is so far nobody has gotten angry at me being a rolling roadblock. They all seem to either smile and give a thumbs up or look concerned when they see me in WWII Denison with the weapons mounted on the side and hood

No problem doing a spread of shots for you. That way you can pick and choose based on allocated space. Once it's all done, I'll also set something up so I can take some photographs from overhead in a similar way to the 4.2" Mortar Carrier shots the Canadian's did for their prototype T-16s.