Flathead V8 Welch Plugs

[Keith Webb]

So far managed to break the casting on one pump. Might wait for someone more expert to have a go at it.

Here's a shot of the new welch plug.

[John Stokes]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

So far managed to break the casting on one pump. Might wait for someone more expert to have a go at it.

Here's a shot of the new welch plug.

Hi Keith your welch plug looks like it is up side down ? Thanks for the parts i have nearly finished the transfer case ,shift tower and linkages hope it rains tomorrow so i can stay in the shed catch up soon. John Stokes

[Tony Smith]

As in the post mentioned/linked above, I mentioned in 2004 that one of the engines I have has had the holes TAPPED for Allen Plugs. I'm only guessing (not sitting here in front of me ) that they were UNC thread, they could have been NPT, but find what plugs you can and tap that thread to suit. There is more than sufficient metal in the threads to tap into, and part of the plugs protrude into the water jacket, but they dont get in the way of anything.

Ian, you wouldn't need to seal the thread so much from leakage, as the sump gasket and some RTV Silicone would cover it, but more so as a corrosion inhibitor/antiseize to allow you to take the plugs out easily as often as you want to clean out the crud in the bottom of your water jackets. I'd guess you'd use the same thread sealer (Loctite, etc) that you would use on those head studs that thread into the water jacket from the top.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by John Stokes

Hi Keith your welch plug looks like it is up side down ? Thanks for the parts i have nearly finished the transfer case ,shift tower and linkages hope it rains tomorrow so i can stay in the shed catch up soon. John Stokes

Hi John
No, it's the right way up - it's dished, not cupped, so it goes in with the convex side up which is then hit with a hammer and drift so it spreads to fill the hole.
Tony... there were no threads, just a shoulder for it to be fitted.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Keefy - snigger, snigger, sorry. At least you managed to get the water pumps out of the block. A lot of people are not aware of the holding bolt that is accessed through the bottom outlet. These can be a real bugger as often the bolt head is corroded. Now if you need new pumps, Mike Davidson here has them. Alternately in the part's suppliers section of this forum I have posted prices for the rebuild kits.

Didn't your welch plug supplier have any brass ones?

BTW, don't you want to link my 2004 thread to this one?

Bob

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

Hi Keefy - snigger, snigger, sorry. At least you managed to get the water pumps out of the block. A lot of people are not aware of the holding bolt that is accessed through the bottom outlet. These can be a real bugger as often the bolt head is corroded. Now if you need new pumps, Mike Davidson here has them. Alternately in the part's suppliers section of this forum I have posted prices for the rebuild kits.

Didn't your welch plug supplier have any brass ones?

BTW, don't you want to link my 2004 thread to this one?

Bob

That bolt in the hole is SUCH a bad idea, although having said that I haven't yet been defeated by one. This engine came close though with a corroded head. I had to hammer on a metric socket which did the trick.

The supplier didn't have any brass ones, so I thought this was a better option than no-more-gaps

Yes, I'd like to merge the threads but I can't seem to make it work.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Yes, I'd like to merge the threads but I can't seem to make it work.

Done.

H.

[sth65pac]

I read this today....

From http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...mp-removal.htm

The Trick to Removing Those Pump Bolts

The Ford flathead V8 engines produced from 1932 to 1954 were designed with twin water pumps. From 1932 to early 1937 Ford's water pumps were mounted to the front of the cylinder heads (left and right). In 1937 Ford changed the design to create pumps that doubled as the front motor mounts. They bolt up to the lower front sides of the engine (left and right). There are several variations of this design, depending on the year vehicle and whether it was a truck or passenger car. Thus, the pumps could have the wide groove pulleys or the later narrow groove. Likewise, they could have a short snout or long snout. However, they still mount the same way.

Often, when tearing down a flathead V8 engine, the novice is not aware of the "hidden" bolt of the four that hold each pump to the engine. You can easily see the hex heads of the three other bolts, but the 4th bolt is actually located inside the pump's hose fitting. In order to see this bolt, one must remove the lower radiator hose from the pump, and look inside the casting. It is a 9/16" hex head bolt just like the other three.

An important suggestion....use a six sided socket on this bolt! Ford used regular steel bolts on the pumps. The one inside the hose fitting can possibly be corroded badly and slip in the socket wrench as you try to turn it. Don't use a 12 point socket as you will likely round off the corners of the bolt before it loosens.

Should the bolt head be so badly corroded that a wrench won't turn it at all, you will have to resort to more aggressive means to remove it. First, try using one of those bolt remover sockets. They have a hardened spiral inside that grips what is left of the bolt head to help turn it out (available from Sears and other automotive tool suppliers). Should that fail to grab and remove the bolt, it may mean a cutting torch, reaching inside the pump to melt away the head of the bolt. Another final way is to destroy the pump's lower casting (either by cutting torch or by cold chisel and hammer) to expose the bolt to whatever means you have to cut it off. This will ruin the pump and destroy its value for rebuilding or using as a core exchange for a rebuilt pump. However, if it's the only way to get the pump off, so be it.

Finally, when it comes time to rebuild the engine, and you are mounting your new or rebuilt pumps, take this precaution. First, use a stainless steel bolt in place of the regular steel bolt. Second, put a bit of thread sealer on the new bolt. You may not ever have to remove it, but someone, someday may need to, and you can help the process become easier by taking this step now.

So there you have it.. I am not quite at this point myself, but it's only a few days away...

What about pan gaskets??? Anyone know of a good source in Australia????

Ian

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Tony... there were no threads, just a shoulder for it to be fitted.

I realise that the hole isn't factory threaded, but noted that on one of the engines that I have somebody had gone to the effort of doing this and I thought that the idea had some merit. If anyone wanted to do this, they would have to tap the thread into their block by machining away the shoulder to give a longer bore to thread.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

I realise that the hole isn't factory threaded, but noted that on one of the engines that I have somebody had gone to the effort of doing this and I thought that the idea had some merit. If anyone wanted to do this, they would have to tap the thread into their block by machining away the shoulder to give a longer bore to thread.

You'd have to be keen wouldn't you!

Incidentally I've just installed the engine. Milestone!