Bedford military-front and civvy-front types

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by David_Hayward

These Pearsons rebuilds included S 5582815 and I think 5582817, and date to late wartime. However, IWM photo KID 3087 clearly shows what I believe to be a newish vehicle, number H 5582702, and in fact the 1942? photo in Liverpool shows Census Number H 5582746 in front. So, these were originally classified as tractors, but rebuilt/converted to SPMs. Interestingly the same vehicles may have been 'assembled' by Pearsons and then rebuilt by them, although I use that word loosely.

David,

I have watched this thread with interest and have found the original large photo of the F60B outside Pearsons, Census no. H5582746 ( in thread "C39Q truck" dated 28/2/04 ). It is my conclusion that this was not a rebuild from another vehicle, but was produced in Canada as a SP Bofors. It is from Contract No. SM 2645 and shown in Chilwell list as prefixed "S". The most likely answer is that it was never intended to be "H", just a mistake on someones part, either in the Ministry of Supply or Pearsons. it is not the first time I have seen a Wartime photo of a vehicle with the incorrect prefix. Another from this contract, 5582742 is shown in the Canadian Vehicle Data Book issued during the war and is prefixed "S".

The photo would date no earlier than 1944, I am sure, going by the sequence of Census numbers, because in those batches prior to this vehicle are Austin K6 Gantry trucks which did not arrive until 1944 and also a contract for BSA M20 m/cycles which were supplied during 1944.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Richard, thanks for the input. We might in fact have a date for the two original photos. These would have been a 1942 delivery (at earliest) I would say from the contract number*. I have just checked the original photo and it clearly shows "H etc". and I have just checked the official Kidbrooke photo of the representative lorry, and it carries the "H" prefix and 5582702. However it clearly states in the description "Ford 3 ton 4x4 carrier 40 mm SP Bofors". The front axle is clearly visible by the way!

I suggest that these lorries were originally designated in the 'tractor' series, and this was a mistake/misdescription, though the fact that the official photograph shows the mistake is interesting. When those vehicles that were reburbished at the earliest in October 1944 by Pearons, they had apprarenly lost their trailers and I suggest that the opportunity was taken to rectify the census number. The photo I have from outside Pearson's works shows that they used (at least) two ways of applying the census number on the cab side. I would like to ask therefore if the concensus is that these Bofors Fords were, when first assembled, designated as though they were tractors although they never were and that this was therefore a misnomer?

As to dating I remind that the photos clearly show the allocated 'Willys' Ben Hur trailers with the predictors, whereas the late war shots with the corrected census prefixes show that no trailers were used. I will endeavour though to see if the early photos have date codes. We know the locations, and from other evidence it must have been at least 1942.

Regarding prefix changes, we know that this was the case, or rather there was confusion, with Mack lorries assembled by Pearsons: NM5 and NO6 were supposed to be tractors, hence 'H' prefixes, but two NM5s according to the record card were lorries, hence 'L' prefixes and the two photos we have of a NO6, which should officially have 'H' prefixes has an 'L' one. Great fun!



*On reflection I wonder if the record cards exist at Bovington?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

What was the difference between the MW and the MWD? The MW I assume had just the early pick-up style body and the MWD the canvas tilt?

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

No!

Some 15 cwts were classified and bodied as "Vans", Fordson WOT2 was another, they were very similar to a normal MWD with canvas canopy. .

I was half owner of two WOT2D's , we found them on a property up near St. Arnaud , in central Victoria in 1979. One of them had its original VAN body still fitted . Although at first glance , it looked similar the the normal 15cwt GS drop side body, it was really quite different in detail. The body sides were fixed , not drop side, and the tailgate was different too .Both vehicles were ex CFA ( bush fire brigade) . As early as 1944 the CFA were issued these odd bods .The better of the two had been fitted with a later model WOT2 full windscreen during its CFA service .

We were impressed with the road speed , it would sit on 50mph without complaining , didn't like hills though. It's now sitting up at the Moama museum .

Mike

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

What was the difference between the MW and the MWD? The MW I assume had just the early pick-up style body and the MWD the canvas tilt?

David,

I think MW is just a family designation, the third letter giving its actual role. Just the same as QL, that does not explain any particualr model.

MWG ; anti tank portee
MWT ; anti tank tractor
MWC ; water tank
MWD ; GS truck (D meant the same on QL. OY, OX, etc.)
MWR : fitted for wireless
MWV ; van (GS body with tilt and aero screen cab)

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Would any kind sole like to suggest whether these were ex-military or civvy OWST tippers please? I am sure that they are the latter..the JEH 945 has a 1943ish Stoke on Trent rego.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Herewith, thanks!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

although the US 1-ton trailer was also used in various roles by Commonwealth units.

... as referred to by Steve Guthrie:

Originally Posted by Steve Guthrie

One of the Canadian loading tables for D-Day mentions the use 'Trailers, Jahn'.
Jahn was one of the manufacturers of the standard US Army 1-ton trailer.