Is Beldam correct? Paquet Markings

[Michael Dorosh]

http://www.armouredacorn.com/Refs-%2...0Carriers).pdf

Beldam calls the 73/1 and 754/1 marking on the Carriers a "paquet marking" and defines it as a temporary marking denoting a vehicle's place in a convoy.

I've seen these markings in a few pictures. Some things to note:

a) they are painted on
b) they always coincide with the unit's Serial Number (i.e. the number given to the unit on Mobilization - double check with ON ACTIVE SERVICE by Mark W. Tonner and you will see this is true)
c) they always seem to end in "/1"
d) I only ever see them on Universal Carriers, but I haven't been looking very hard on other vehicles

I am guessing they are actually a unit identification code used during embarkation and not a convoy marking. Does anyone have any information on this? Has anyone seen these markings on other vehicles?

[Michael Dorosh]

Interestingly, in his own book, volume 3, he uses the very same vehicle as an example in an illustration, and calls the 73/1 a "loading code".

[Ed Storey]

Mike, I agree with you that they are Unit Serial Number or Identification Code. There is also a coloured bar code that accompanies these numbers and the bar code, with numbers, is usually seen on unit heavy baggage although it can be painted on vehicles.

[Mark W. Tonner]

First off - 73 is incorrect for The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment: - 73 was the 'Unit Serial Number' for 1st Medium Battery, R.C.A., C.A.S.F. - from 1 Sep 39 to 1 Jun 40 - after that Serial 73 was not assigned to another unit - 33 was the 'Unit Serial Number' for The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment (CASF & CA(A)) - from 1 Sep 39 to 15 Oct 45

Secondly - 754 is correct for the HLI of C - 754 was the 'Unit Serial Number' for The Highland Light Infantry of Canada (CASF & CA(A)) - from 24 May 40 to 15 Jan 46

The use of the 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1, came in to use sometime after the standing up of First Canadian Army (approx. 1 Apr 42), but when exactly this occurred, I am unsure of at this time. The reason for the addition of the backslash followed by the number 1, was of an administrative nature to differentiate between units of the Canadian Army Overseas and those of the British Army. This did not affect units of the Canadian Army (Active) serving within Canada, but upon transfer to the United Kingdom for service with the Canadian Army Overseas, the backslash followed by the number 1 was added to their ‘Unit Serial Number’. This also, did not affect those units that were raised overseas under Provisional War Establishments to cover experimental and temporary organizations and special courses of instruction under the authority of either Canadian Military Headquarters (London) or the Army Commander, these units continued to be identified by a number that was prefixed by the letters ‘CM’ (Canadian Military), ie: CM-xxx, which was assigned to them upon authority of their raising under either CMHQ or the GOC-in-C First Canadian Army. Some of these temporary units/organizations were eventually ‘Called Out’ and ‘Placed on Active Service’ under an Order-in-Council, at which point they were authorized under a ‘Unit Serial Number’ and in most cases, a new designation.

This means of identifying units of the Canadian Army Overseas, was purely administrative and after its inception, was used in such things as Canadian Military Headquarters Administrative Orders and in Canadian Army Overseas Routine Orders. It also appears in use in Part II Orders issued by Canadian Section, General Headquarters, 2nd Echelon, in the United Kingdom, Sicily/Italy and North West Europe.

Starting with the Canadian Army involvement with Operation HUSKY, the 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1, was also used as a form of ‘Embarkation’ number, normally either chalked of painted in white on the front of a unit’s vehicles and were normally only carried on the vehicle for a brief period before embarkation, on the voyage and for a brief period after landing. I have found one clear example of this for the landing in Sicily, which I have included as Example 3 below.

By the time of Operation OVERLORD, this use of the 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1, had involved a bit more, as can be seen in Example 2 below, where besides the 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1 being used as an ‘Embarkation’ number, the number and type of landing craft in which the vehicle was to travel, was added along side the 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1, and in this case reads 733/1 1712 LCT (IV).

Although partially obscured, in Example 1, this same system of ‘Embarkation’ number, using the 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1, followed by the number and type of landing craft in which the vehicle was to travel, is used.

Example 4 below, is an example of the use of a 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1, as an ‘Embarkation’ number.

As Ed pointed out, the 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1, also came to be used as a means to identify unit ‘Baggage’.

Example 1: (see attached)

Credit: Lieut. Donald I. Grant / Canada Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-132886
Caption: Gunners with a Priest M-7 105mm. self-propelled howitzer of 34 Battery, 14th Field Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery (R.C.A.), France, 20 June 1944.
The 'Unit Serial Number' for the 14th Field Regiment, R.C.A. was 707

Example 2: (see attached)

Credit: Lieut. H. Gordon Aikman / Canada Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-140192
Caption: H/Major J.W. Forth, chaplain of the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa, assisting the Regimental Aid Party of the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa in loading a wounded soldier onto a jeep near Caen, France, 15 July 1944.
The 'Unit Serial Number' for The Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa (M.G.) was 733

Example 3: (see attached)

Credit: Lieut. Jack H. Smith / Canada Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-114511
Caption: Infantrymen of The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment in a Universal Carrier advancing on Nissoria, Italy, July 1943.
The 'Unit Serial Number' for The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment was 33

Example 4: (see attached)

Credit: Lieut. Ken Bell / Canada Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-183737
Caption: Personnel of the 17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars in their Humber Mk. IV armoured car in Normandy, France, 18-20 July 1944.
The 'Unit Serial Number' for the 7th Reconnaissance Regiment (17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars), C.A.C. was 1102

Hope this helps ...

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Example 1: (see below)

Credit: Lieut. Ken Bell / Canada Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-162434
Caption: Infantrymen of the Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders crossing the Orne River on a Bailey bridge built by the Royal Canadian Engineers (R.C.E.) en route to Caen, France, 18 July 1944.
The 'Unit Serial Number' of the 32nd (Kingston) Light Anti-Aircraft Battery, R.C.A., (CA(A)) was 449D from 21 Dec 41 to 13 Nov 45 and in the attached photo below it appears in use as an 'Embarkation' number as: 449/D-?

Example 2: (see below)

Credit: Lieut. Ken Bell / Canada Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-177653
Caption: Infantrymen of the Toronto Scottish Regiment in their Universal Carrier waiting to move forward, Nieuport, Belgium, 9 September 1944.
The 'Unit Serial Number' of The Toronto Scottish Regiment (M.G.) (CASF & CA(A)) was 34 from 1 Sep 39 to 1 May 43 and again from 24 Feb 44 to 31 Dec 45 and in the attached photo below it appears in use as an 'Embarkation' number, although partially obscured, the 34 portion is visible.

NOTE: from 1 May 43 to 24 Feb 44, 34 was the 'Unit Serial Number' of the 2nd Infantry Division Support Battalion (The Toronto Scottish Regiment)

Example 3: (see below)

Credit: Lieut. Michael M. Dean / Canada. Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-131368
Caption: Infantrymen of The Toronto Scottish Regiment (M.G.) in a Universal Carrier near Tilly-la-Campagne, France, 8 August 1944.
In the attached photo below, again, although partially obscured, the /1 portion is visible.

Example 4: (see below)

Credit: Lieut. Ken Bell / Canada Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-179271
Caption: Private M. Bulyea of the Calgary Highlanders cleaning his Bren light machine gun, with his Universal (Bren Carrier) Carrier in the background, Fort de Schooten, Belgium, 4 October 1944.
The 'Unit Serial Number' of The Calgary Highlanders (CASF & CA(A)) was 192 from 1 Sep 39 to 15 Dec 45 and in the attached photo below it appears in use as an 'Embarkation' number as: 192/1

Cheers

[Ed Storey]

Perhaps someone can tell me which unit 645/1 was?

Thanks,

ED

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by edstorey

Perhaps someone can tell me which unit 645/1 was?

Hi Ed;

Serial 645: -

No. 45 Light Aid Detachment, R.C.O.C., C.A.S.F.
Authorized: GO 244/40 - Effective 15 Aug 40, C.A.S.F. designation dropped: GO 273/40 -
Effective 7 Nov 40

No. 45 Light Aid Detachment, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 273/40 - Effective 7 Nov 40, Converted & Redesignated: GO 14/42
Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 645 - No. 45 Light Aid Detachment (Type B), R.C.O.C. - GO 14/42 - Conversion Effective - 25 Feb 41, Redesignation Effective - 15 Oct 41

No. 45 Light Aid Detachment (Type B), R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 14/42 - Conversion Effective - 25 Feb 41, Redesignation Effective - 15 Oct 4142, Converted & Redesignated: GO 151/43 - Effective 1 Jan 43
Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 645 - No. 45 Light Aid Detachment (Type A), R.C.O.C. - GO 151/43 - Effective 1 Jan 43

No. 45 Light Aid Detachment (Type A), R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 151/43 - Effective 1 Jan 43, Converted & Redesignated: GO 134/44 - Effective 18 Oct 43
Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 645 - No. 45 Light Aid Detachment (Type D), R.C.O.C. -
GO 134/44 - Effective 18 Oct 43

No. 45 Light Aid Detachment (Type D), R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 134/44 - Effective 18 Oct 43, Redesignated: CMHQ Adm O No. 85 - Effective 15 May 44
Redesignated: Serial No. 645 - No. 45 Light Aid Detachment (Type D), R.C.E.M.E. - CMHQ Adm O No. 85 - Effective 15 May 44

No. 45 Light Aid Detachment (Type D), R.C.E.M.E.
Authorized: CMHQ Adm O No. 85 - Effective 15 May 44, Disbanded: GO 71/46 - Effective 6 Dec 45

(was the Light Aid Detachment attached to the 5th Anti-Tank Regiment, R.C.A. - Sep 41 to Dec 45)

Cheers

[Ed Storey]

Thank you for the information,

ED

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Mark,

Thank you for providing this information. A solid piece of research!

Here´s another picture showing the 'Unit Serial Number' 200:

Originally Posted by marco

And this one came from the National Archives in Canada. Dated April 7th 1945, location Holland, the Afwalnings Canal, Netherlands.

Can anyone explain what the number 200/31 or 200/51 on the right of the carrier means?

Regards,
Hanno

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Mark,

Thank you for providing this information. A solid piece of research!

Here´s another picture showing the 'Unit Serial Number' 200:


Regards,
Hanno

The carrier(s) in this photo belong to The Lake Superior Regiment (Motor), as identified in their history. The 'Unit Serial Number' of The Lake Superior Regiment (Motor) was 942.

In this case the '200/31' or '200/51' are not a 'Unit Serial Number'.

The 'Unit Serial Number' 200 was that which was assigned to the No. 18 Field Ambulance, R.C.A.M.C. on 1 September 1939 until their disbandment on 11 October 1945.

I have no idea what the number(s) '200/31' or '200/51' on the rear of this carrier represent.

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

I have no idea what the number(s) '200/31' or '200/51' on the rear of this carrier represent.

Hmmm. . . . back to square one, eh?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Mark W. Tonner]

Another example (see attached) of the 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1 being used as an ‘Embarkation’ number, along with the number and type of landing craft in which the vehicle was to travel, added along side (or in this case on the other side of the bumper) the 'Unit Serial Number' with the addition of a backslash followed by the number 1, and in this case reads 2351/1 followed by T143MTS

'Unit Serial Number' - 2351 was the number assigned to the 3rd Public Relations Group Type (C) (later redesignated - No. 3 Canadian Public Relations Group Type (C) - effective 1 April 1945) upon authorization effective 1 April 1944 until disbandment effective 15 December 1945.

Caption: Personnel of the Canadian Army Film and Photo Unit with their jeep, Gruchy, France, 9 July 1944.
Credit: Lieutenant Michael M. Dean/Canada. Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-140209

Cheers

[Michael Dorosh]

For some reason I got no email notice that replies had been made; sorry gents.

This information was necessary for a book I'm working on - and while I answered the question for myself, I was stumped on the "/1" so yes, this has been extremely informative!

Interestingly, I used Mark Tonner's book ON ACTIVE SERVICE to research the photo of the Film and Photo guys, and thankfully came to the same conclusion as he did vis a vis the unit ID! *whew*

To answer Hanno's query: I wonder if the other markings in question (i.e. /51) maybe what started this whole conversation - i.e. a "paquet" marking indicating convoy placing. Vehicle #51 in a convoy? They seem to be temporary.