Chevrolet 1533X2 30-cwt trucks

[Tony R]

I wonder if anyone can help me please? I am looking for any photographs of the original Chevrolet 1533X2 30cwt trucks circa 1942 prior to conversion by the LRDG. I recently found this picture on the web, it purports to come from that excellent BBC series ‘The World at War’, episode 8.


http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...evoriginal.jpg

If it is pre-conversion truck then it clearly starts out life as an open cab truck. I originally thought that they were closed cab trucks that the LRDG modified by, amongst other things, cutting the roofs off in a similar way to the Chevy WB’s that they used. In the photograph below you can clearly see where the windscreen pillars/posts of this surviving LRDG WB have been cut off. However as far as I know you don’t see this on the 1533’s.


http://www.lrdg.de/v_wb3.jpg

My guess is, therefore, that the 1533's started out as open cab trucks. But that is only my guess. There are much more knowledgeable guys out there than me.

It would be great to hear from anyone who has photographs of the original 1533 trucks and also whether anyone can shed any light on the World at War image.

Thanks!

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Tony R

My guess is, therefore, that the 1533's started out as open cab trucks. But that is only my guess. There are much more knowledgeable guys out there than me.

Thanks!

Tony the trucks you mention were flat cowl export models which were produced with only the front sheet metal and with out windscreen pillars. The bodies were built locally at whatever destination they arrived at. Fargo, which is the Chrysler Corp. export model truck were exported as flat faced cowl models as well. In New Zealand most of the Fargo, Ford and Chevrolet trucks/ panel vans were local bodies with wooden frames which looked the same as the all steel cab from a distance but was totally different.

The early model Chev you have pictured was a steel cab cut down but the YS model you show is an Indian Army model and they did a lot of canvas roof type vehicles including CMP's.

I have added 3 photos below. The first is a 1939 WB Chev flat faced cowl model with local Egyption built body on it the other two are Indian Army Chev's. Photos are off the net and I can't remember where from.

There is also a thread on this forum called I think "BOMBAY CHEV'S" which has a great deal of information and a few photos of the Canvas roofed flat cowl Indian Army vehicles.

[cletrac (RIP)]

These pix off the Factory Photos CD should solve your dilemma.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The work was done by General Motors Near East Ltd in Alexandria.

[Tony R]

Thanks one and all!

If you could just indulge me a bit further, the truck that Cletrac posted photos of, is that the 'India pattern'?

Also, is this the version that the LRDG modified for their own use?

Finally, are there any shots of the cab interior/dash and is the 'factory photo CD' available to buy?

Hope you don't think I'm a P.I.T.A!

Cheers!

[cletrac (RIP)]

The India Pattern used a locally made box while the one in the pix I posted is Canadian made. This looks identical to the LRDG truck. There aren't any interior pix on the CD.
Check out this thread for the CD. I highly recommend it: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9101
The surviving LRDG truck has had the windshield removed. It pivots on those two bolts at the top of the short posts. The posts weren't chopped, they were made like that. On some of the LRDG pix the windshield is in place.
These pix are from the IWM site.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's some more LRDG pix from the IWM site. It looks like they were fond of the Lewis guns. Note in the above pix how they removed a bunch of the grille bars for better air flow. Also note that the surviving LRDG truck has horizontal grille bars while all the others have vertical bars. I think that's a 1939 to 1940 change.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Tony R

Thanks one and all!

If you could just indulge me a bit further, the truck that Cletrac posted photos of, is that the 'India pattern'?

Also, is this the version that the LRDG modified for their own use?

Finally, are there any shots of the cab interior/dash and is the 'factory photo CD' available to buy?

Hope you don't think I'm a P.I.T.A!

Cheers!

If you look at the photos of the factory Chev you will see that it has no provision for the folding canvas cab roof whereas the 'Indian Pattern' trucks do. The Later 1533X2 LRDG trucks were made new in the factory to the LRDG's design so in effect were just another 'model' of new truck rather then trucks the LRDG modified for their own use. Mind you they were probably modified further by the troops that used them.

[Tony Smith]

Some pics of a surviving Indian Pattern Chev. I don't know if the dashboard is the same as used in the 1533X2 Chevs.

[Tony Smith]

Note that the roof doesn't actually join the windscreen, being just a canopy over the Driver. The support hoop can be removed leaving the Driver exposed, but the load space covered.

[Tony R]

Thanks guys, great info!

Now, I really thought I’d got it sussed. The pics that Cletrac first posted proved to me that the 1533 Chev was an open cab truck. Then I got thrown a swerved ball/bowled a googlie (depending on whether you follow baseball or cricket!) by the photo of the LRDG truck, the one with the guy ‘firing’ the Vickers K.



If you look at the ‘door post’ near his holster there is a door striker catch. This part at least looks like a cut-down closed cab. I am totally confused now! The 1533’s used by the LRDG appear to have an open cab dash/windshield area (flat like an open cab) but a cut down closed cab rear. For my sanity can anyone offer any comment?

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Tony R

Thanks guys, great info!

For my sanity can anyone offer any comment?

As mentioned the trucks were made NEW in the factory. The Chev cab of the period was made up of about 4 or 5 pieces welded togeather so it was quite simple to use the lower rear panel of the cab on these trucks which had the lower part of the door pillars as well as the door lock striker plate for the half height doors that were fitted "WHEN NEW". This panel ended at the mold line seen on GMC and Chev truck cabs of the period and because it did not have the roof to brace it it had a diagonal bar fitted at the bottom for bracing. The LRDG took parts off the trucks and cut out grill bars etc. to save weight which was often replaced with petrol cans so this is why you often saw no doors once the trucks were issued and you only have to look at their jeeps to see this.

Compare this all steel panel on the factory made truck to the photo showing the 'Indian Army' truck which is wood.

[Tony R]

Thanks Cliff for putting me right, very informative. This forum is a great place to increase ones knowledge.

So, if one was to re-create a LRDG Chev, a good start would be to mate an open cab GMC front (converted to RH drive) to a cut down closed cab rear? The reason for asking is that I recently acquired a 1 1/2 ton Chev and was contemplating doing this as a project. Now I better understand how the trucks were first built, it gives me a better idea of the task in hand.

Regards to all.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Tony R

Thanks Cliff for putting me right, very informative. This forum is a great place to increase ones knowledge.

So, if one was to re-create a LRDG Chev, a good start would be to mate an open cab GMC front (converted to RH drive) to a cut down closed cab rear? The reason for asking is that I recently acquired a 1 1/2 ton Chev and was contemplating doing this as a project. Now I better understand how the trucks were first built, it gives me a better idea of the task in hand.

Regards to all.

Tony what country/area are you located in? makes it easier for us know where you are located.

I am not 100% certain but I think you will find the open cab GMC-CCKW cowl is totally different to the flat cowl Chev of the same period. For instance the Chev bonnet probably does not fit.

The photo below is of a replica LRDG Chev in England I believe.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Excuse me if I cry but that truck was constructed out of the last Southampton-assembled normal control Chevrolet, 1939 3TL model chassis number3TL39063. That has left just a COE as the last locally-built Chevy in the world. It provided its chassis and was bodied with the front end of a probably Canadian '42 Model 1543 with a replica body.

[Tony R]

Hi Cliff, I live in the UK, but I've yet to get close up to the LRDG Chev that you pictured.

Here is a pic of my truck.




A guy who knows more about GMC's than me reckons the Chev's cab is the same as a GMC one (?). Thus I thought that the GMC open cab cowl would fit. The rear bed is GMC but is obviously not original. The axles are not the same as the LRDG Chev (are they common to other vehicles?) the wheel base is too long and its a left hooker. Apart from that its a runner and the bodywork is in excellent condition!

[cliff]

the closed cabs were probably the same on the GMC and Chev but a flat faced cowl and the GMC open cab cowl I think you will find are different. Remember the flat faced cowl was an export civilian body.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Likely the only difference in the two cab styles is in the door hinge area. If you took a closed cab and made this area smooth like in Cliff's pix then chopped off the roof and made up some windshield posts nobody could tell the difference. On those old Chev and GM trucks the firewall and hood are the same shape.
If you could find the front and rear axles off a C15 CMP they'd have the bolt pattern you'd want and likely be the right width. Otherwise just drill your hubs to the military bolt pattern and bolt on some CMP wheels. It'd be a great project. Around here I could get dozens of those old 1.5 ton Chevs. In fact I already have a couple that I used for parts.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's some factory pix of the 1542 flat cowl model. They've got the holes for the door hinges. The interior pic is a closed cab but it's rh drive so the layout will be the same.

[gordon]

That truck is marked up as Ninth Service Command, headquartered in Fort Douglas, Utah, and responsible for the top left quarter of the US plus Alaska during WW2 .

A surviving WW 2 Ninth Service Command Chev is about as rare as an LRDG one I think. The most likely original bed was the dump bed like the 4 x 4 Chev dump - other body styles were available, but they nearly all had full length running boards that your truck doesn't.

134" wheelbase maybe? or is it longer.

[Tony R]

Thanks all. When talking about a flat face cowl we are looking from the front, so the area behind the hood/bonnet is flat from one side to the other, or are we looking from the side, so that the same area does not curve up to the windshield?

What sort of dash do the export civilian trucks have? Mine has the typical closed cab GMC/Chev style, but photos of the re-built (I hate to call it a replica as it is too good for that!) LRDG Chev show a flat dash very similar to an open cab GMC but in RH drive format.

From what little I know, the LRDG trucks never had full windshields/windscreens. They appear to have had aeroscreens the same as truck from the 'World at War' series.

The front axle needs to be 2WD, and I believe the rear needs to be two-speed???

I am not sure whether the Ninth Service Command markings are original to the truck, it does retain its original hood number though.

Thanks again to all who have posted.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Tony R

The front axle needs to be 2WD, and I believe the rear needs to be two-speed???

Rear axle would be an Eaton two speed ...Maple Leaf ..Chev and GM used lots of them on their two wheel drive trucks..

Single speed could be used but more fun with a two speed..
Better range too.

[Tony R]

Here are shots of the cowl area of my Chev. I cant really tell the difference between mine and the pics of the 1542 flat cowl model. Any pointers as to how different it is to a LRDG Chev????



Here is a close-up of the serial number on the hood.



Thanks again one and all.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's the caption off this one with full windshields from IWM.
Members of the Long Range Desert Group (LRDG) inspect newly-issued Chevrolet 30cwt trucks in Cairo, May 1942.
The firewall area on these trucks can't be made flat since the old stovebolt has to stick back there somewhere.
The flat cowl bit is where the shape in line with the cowl vent is carried through to the dash with no windshield frame. The type of windshield wouldn't matter since they usually threw them away anyway. A windshield would have got in the way of the field of fire on some of their MG mounts and a reflection from the glass would acquire unwanted attention from many miles away.
I don't know if you checked out the New Zealand WW2 site but they have quite a bit in the LRDG. Here's the link.
http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/name-011342.html

[Tony R]

Hi Cletrac, I've finally got it!! Sorry for being a numpty. I need to cut a flat panel in the area where the windshield will be removed, from just behind the air vent to the dash. I assume that the nice curved civilian dash will have to be removed as well and replaced by a flat dash similar to the open cab GMC's.

Thanks for the great link as well!

[Tony R]

BTW, does anyone recognise the engine in my Chev? I believe the original was replaced by a more powerful unit, but it is still a straight 6 Chevy engine.


I need to find a RH drive bellhousing to suit.

Thanks!

[cliff]

such a shame that the old girl is to be cut up as she looks to be in reasonable shape.

[Bob Carriere]

...a 235 cubic inch...... you will need to look up the serial number by the machined pad leftor rear of the dizzy...

Look directly above the starter motor...... if you see two vertical raised bars....aka aptain's bar,,,, about an inch long raised casting.... thenyou are lucky and have larger 261.......

Any CMP 216 right hand drive bellhousing will fit that engine....

Good luck.... don't forget to take lots of pictures and share them on MLU.

Bob

[Tony R]

Hi Cliff,

I'm now in two minds now about the Chev. I'm coming round to thinking that she is just too good to chop, with original paint and all. There must be loads of 1 1/2 tonners in Australia that would be suitable? Can anyone kindly put me in touch with a seller over there?

Thanks for the engine info Bob, I'll check the markings.

Thanks all!

[Kuno]

Again this mix of endless versions as I remember it from another post...

My statement to the LRDG Chevs is like this:

A) The one shown above which is preserved in the IWM is not a WB but a WA which was purchased & modified in Egypt.

B) The trucks LRDG T.Patrol used at "Jebel Sherif" were WA as well but some were flat-cowl and others with the removed windscreen. As I recall some were taken over from the Egyptian army and others transformed civillian trucks.

C) The later 1533X2 were at first locally "transformed"; then came the phase where they used the CMP Fords until they received new 1533X2 which were then built as per "LRDG Specification". I remember at least one picture showing them somewhere in Egypt with the same windshield and tires as in Cletrac's factory-shots.