M10 Achilles IIC - Canadian S 290465

[lillejens]

IMG_0857.jpg P6012546.JPG P5312534.JPG

This is pictures from last weekend, where the M-10 was presented for the public for the first time.

As written above we found the number S290465 under several layers of paint and the information on the number came from a canadian - 08 Apr 45 Issued to B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp. The vehicle is from 1943 and it must have a history from 43 to 45 especially because it has two serious shots in the front (transmission area) - one ricochet and one repaired piercing shot. It could have had a completely different number before S290465 and can have belonged to a different unit, but again there is no information at the Royal Artillery Museum and nothing from Bovington. Maybe someone here on the forum knows more??
Anyway there should exist a war diary from B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp 4 Canadian Corps.

Best regards
lillejens

[tankbarrell]

The WD number you found would only ever have been issued to that one vehicle. They were not transferred.

It is hard to find histories for individual vehicles, hopefully you will get lucky and either find a listing or better still a photo!

[Niels V]

here are some more pictures

[John McGillivray]

The time period of March-April 1945 is when the 1st Cdn Corps transferred from Italy to North West Europe. The only two units that would have used 17pdr M-10s were the 4th Anti-Tank Regiment RCA of the 5th Canadian Armoured Regiment; and the 7th A/T Regt. RCA of the 1st Cdn Corps Artillery. Both Regiments would have had two batteries of towed 17pdrs and two SP btys with 17pdr M-10s.

Note that the 4th A/T Regt were using 3 inch M-10s in Italy which were replaced by 17pdr M-10s after the move to NWE. 7th A/T Regt was using 17pdr Valentines (Archers) in Italy. These were returned to the British in Italy and the Regiment received 17pdr M-10 in NWE.

[lillejens]

Originally Posted by John McGillivray

The time period of March-April 1945 is when the 1st Cdn Corps transferred from Italy to North West Europe. The only two units that would have used 17pdr M-10s were the 4th Anti-Tank Regiment RCA of the 5th Canadian Armoured Regiment; and the 7th A/T Regt. RCA of the 1st Cdn Corps Artillery. Both Regiments would have had two batteries of towed 17pdrs and two SP btys with 17pdr M-10s.

Note that the 4th A/T Regt were using 3 inch M-10s in Italy which were replaced by 17pdr M-10s after the move to NWE. 7th A/T Regt was using 17pdr Valentines (Archers) in Italy. These were returned to the British in Italy and the Regiment received 17pdr M-10 in NWE.

Hi John - thank you for your answer. Your information correspond with what we found out - i.e. that it must have been part of 4th A/T Regt - B squadron - We have marked it as B2 (second vehicle in B squadron) - the information on Italy and 3 inch M-10's and the receavement of new Achilles is new to us and very interesting. That of course explains the high WD number.

lillejens

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by lillejens

Does anybody have any information on this tank destroyer - I have found the following through Missing Lynx:
S290465
19 Mar 45 Issued to 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps), Received from 171 Veh Pk
08 Apr 45 Issued to B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp, Received from 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps)
31 May 45 Issued to 167 Veh Pk 1517AOD, Received from B Sqn 1st Cnd Corps.

and

Originally Posted by lillejens

Hi John - thank you for your answer. Your information correspond with what we found out - i.e. that it must have been part of 4th A/T Regt - B squadron - We have marked it as B2 (second vehicle in B squadron) - the information on Italy and 3 inch M-10's and the receavement of new Achilles is new to us and very interesting. That of course explains the high WD number.

From the information you have provided (first quote above), the vehicle in question was never actually issued to a 'fighting' unit of the Canadian Army in North West Europe during the period of 19 March 1945 to 31 May 1945.

On 8 April 1945, it was issued to "B" Squadron, 25th Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), C.A.C. - the 'Armoured Delivery Squadron' which was under the command/control of I Canadian Corps (your B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp). It would seem from the information provided above that S290465 was held by "B" Squadron, 25th Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), C.A.C. from 8 April 1945 to 31 May 1945 at which point the vehicle was returned to Ordnance (167 Veh Pk 1517AOD) having never actually been issued to a unit. If the vehicle had of been issued to a unit during this time, there would be an entry to that effect.

Also, the first entry regarding the issue of S290465 to 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps) from 171 Veh Pk on 19 March 1945 - 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps) was the 'Armoured Delivery Squadron' which was under the command/control of I British Corps.

Cheers

[lillejens]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

and



From the information you have provided (first quote above), the vehicle in question was never actually issued to a 'fighting' unit of the Canadian Army in North West Europe during the period of 19 March 1945 to 31 May 1945.

On 8 April 1945, it was issued to "B" Squadron, 25th Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), C.A.C. - the 'Armoured Delivery Squadron' which was under the command/control of I Canadian Corps (your B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp). It would seem from the information provided above that S290465 was held by "B" Squadron, 25th Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), C.A.C. from 8 April 1945 to 31 May 1945 at which point the vehicle was returned to Ordnance (167 Veh Pk 1517AOD) having never actually been issued to a unit. If the vehicle had of been issued to a unit during this time, there would be an entry to that effect.

Also, the first entry regarding the issue of S290465 to 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps) from 171 Veh Pk on 19 March 1945 - 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps) was the 'Armoured Delivery Squadron' which was under the command/control of I British Corps.

Cheers

Hi Mark - this is of course both good and bad news. Good because it is important to know the right story. Bad - because we had hoped for a more interesting story.
But anyhow there must be more to it than this. I wrote earlier that the vehicle had two shots in the front - one of them quite serious judging from the work done on it. So how would You or anyone else suggest to go further back than I British Corps - is that at all possible? Could it have had a different number for instance if rebuild from 3" to 17 pounder. This is of course only speculation but if it in some theatre was put out of business and rebuild again with a 17 pounder - supplied with a new WD number - and then transferred to I Canadian Corps.

Regards
Jens

[lillejens]

Originally Posted by Niels V

here are some more pictures

Tak Niels - I hope You had a nice time at the Græsted Veteran Træf - I can see from the pictures, that you must be one of the DMKF-boys - anyway one of the pictures is from the evening before the actual opening. Right?

[Niels V]

Hej Jens
Yes the Græsted show was really great this year, many different vehicles lots to see.
It was nice to see some of your stuff also.
There are some pictures from the show here http://www.ghrvpk.dk/graested2009.htm if any one wants to see.
Yes I am menber of DMKF and GHRVPK and accutualy spent quit a lot time talk to your group...
Cheers

[lillejens]

Originally Posted by tankbarrell

The WD number you found would only ever have been issued to that one vehicle. They were not transferred.

It is hard to find histories for individual vehicles, hopefully you will get lucky and either find a listing or better still a photo!

Tankbarrel - thank you for your answer. This helps ok - but of course it would have been interesting with a history before the one allready mentioned. The WD number is quite high - I haven't seen that high a number in Normandy for instance?