Jeeps in RCN and RCAF service

[chris vickery]

I tried to hijack Tim S`s post on jeep colours hoping to combine and have all the info in one place but without much luck...

What I would like to learn about is jeeps in RCN or RCAF service during WW2.

I know that it has been debated on various posts as to colours, with the concensus that they were for the most part OD with markings as appropriate.

Are there any photos out there showing such markings etc?

[mike mckinley]

hello chris

i think i have some pics of rcn/rcaf jeeps..i'll have a look and report back....Update, i do have some pictures, but they are of m-38cdn, and a1cdn's....sorry

cheers!!
mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Sorry, not a RCAF Jeep, but an RAF one. At least it shows one can pile 12 pilots in a Jeep!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This must be a Canadian Jeep - it's been put up on beer bottles!

[david moore]

Chris
I've tried to find out about the markings on RCN jeeps but without much success. My contract 505 MB was in RCN service in Halifax. It had been repainted when I got it but it must have been grey at one time since I found grey paint lurking in all sorts of odd places - such as the fibreboard firewall insulation pieces.

I've tried to find wartime pictures of Halifax that might show an RCN jeep but no luck so far. Navy vehicles in Britain were all navy blue with large white RN lettering - but I'll bet the RCN used grey a la USN.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Here is my jeep at the Abbotsford Air Show about 7 years ago when it was painted as if it were Tactical Air Force, Normandy 1944.

RCAF jeeps in Canada had markings in white (presumably) on hood (bonnet) and usually
R.C.A.F.
a DND number in 20,000 or 30,000 range (shown as 20.000 style)
and two letters (usually first and last letters of name of station e.g. C,X, for Comox (note the commas) or if two words, then first letter of each word e.g. SI for Sea Island.

Overseas the RCAF used RAF type numbering with 5 or 6 digit number. I have seen a photo of a HUP overseas with a home service DND number on the front bumper.

RCAF jeeps would likely have been painted army colours as the British started doing that for their RAF vehicle in 1940 I believe. I have some articles on RAF vehicle markings from the UK's Miltary Vehicle Trust magazine WINDSCREEN.

Post-war Canadian RCAF jeeps were painted a blue -- ref. photos of an unrestored M38A1CDN (1953 Ford with special data plate contract number for RCAF) that was found in Alberta a few years ago.

I have only found 1 photo of a WWII RCN jeep but no date (WWII MB/GPW). Small circular marking on side forward of door well. A black (?) circle about 5" diameter with white letters
RCN
_____
A-102

As well there is the standard Army DND number over the rear wheelwells. In this case 61-### So this jeep was likely reassigned from the army to the RCN.

At some point, probably post-WWII, some RCN jeeps had a name plate of the ship affixed to the front - a board with brass letters spelling out the name of the ship. Guess who would get to ride in the ship's only jeep? Also for Korean War period, apparently they also would paint the ship's number on the sides. (Ref: Scott Lorette's HMCS Cayuga M38CDN jeep.

I also have a lovely WWII RN jeep photo taken at Gibralter (complete with mini white Ensigns painted on) and there is also a photo of RN sailors riding in a camouflage painted jeep in Anzio but it is likely a borrowed army jeep.



COLIN

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Colin Macgregor Stevens
Here is my jeep at the Abbotsford Air Show about 7 years ago when it was painted as if it were Tactical Air Force, Normandy 1944.

Colin, what are you doing in an Air Force uniform? You know the Seaforths shoot deserters, don't you?

Did you help put up the CF118 decoy? I have many fond? memories of putting that thing together and taking it down. When the then Lt. Rose, who was a real hands-on kind of officer, asked me how long it takes to put the decoy up, I answered him,
"An hour and a half, Sir!"
He then asked how long if he and the MWO assisted?
"Three hours, Sir!"

He left us alone after that

[SteveJ]

Hello Mike

I would really like to see the pics of the M38's if possible.

Thanks

Steve

Originally Posted by mike mckinley

i think i have some pics of rcn/rcaf jeeps..i'll have a look and report back....Update, i do have some pictures, but they are of m-38cdn, and a1cdn's....sorry

[Ron Pier]

Colin. What is the significance of the 83 after TAF. I'm just trying to understand RAF markings.
I met a bloke in Normandy this year with a similarly marked RAF Jeep. He maintained that the TAF/3 on my RAF Royal Enfield was incorrect. YET there were only 1st 2nd and 3rd Tactical air force.

Ron

[alvin5182]

Gents:
I've had this photo on my hard drive for ages. I can't remember where I got it, but it looks like a copy of a DND photo. Caption says...........39R Wing-400 Sqn-Denmark-July 1945. Hope this helps.

Al Davis


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10...enmark-194.jpg

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by alvin5182

Gents:
I've had this photo on my hard drive for ages. I can't remember where I got it, but it looks like a copy of a DND photo. Caption says...........39R Wing-400 Sqn-Denmark-July 1945. Hope this helps.

Al;

That would be correct, No. 400 Squadron, RCAF was a component squadron of No. 39 (Reconnaissance) Wing, No. 83 Group, Second Tactical Air Force, RAF, as per the markings in the photo TAF/83 39 R Wing

Cheers

[ted angus]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

Colin. What is the significance of the 83 after TAF. I'm just trying to understand RAF markings.
I met a bloke in Normandy this year with a similarly marked RAF Jeep. He maintained that the TAF/3 on my RAF Royal Enfield was incorrect. YET there were only 1st 2nd and 3rd Tactical air force.

Ron, TAF equals Tactical Air Force, the number following it is the subordinate organisation i.e 83, 84 or 85 group. Afraid the guy who says TAF/3 is incorrect is right,

TED

[servicepub (RIP)]

"The Jeep in Canadian Service" has a photo or two of WWII Cdn Jeeps and some info on colours. Unfortunately they are there and I am here so I can't post right now.

[Ron Pier]

Thanks for the information chaps ( Bugger I got it wrong)

Ted, Jan sent me an explanation about RAF markings that you had sent him. Great information, Thanks.

I spray stenciled the markings on, but I don't feel confident to modify it myself. I know a good old boy sign writer local to me. I think I'll ask him.

Ron

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

Colin. What is the significance of the 83 after TAF. I'm just trying to understand RAF markings.
I met a bloke in Normandy this year with a similarly marked RAF Jeep. He maintained that the TAF/3 on my RAF Royal Enfield was incorrect. YET there were only 1st 2nd and 3rd Tactical air force.

Ron

That bike thumbnail looks very much like a Triumph TRW, except that the handlebars seem a bit different than what I remember from my DR days.

I still have one of those saddlebags.

Memories........

[jim fraser (RIP)]

hi hanno.can you tell me where that picture is from with pilots.my uncle jim fiander was a raf fighter pilot and then was a squadron leader.the gentleman on the front of the hood is remarkable in appearance to my uncle jim.i wonder if you can email me the picture so we can get it enlarged.regards jim.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by jim fraser

hi hanno.can you tell me where that picture is from with pilots.my uncle jim fiander was a raf fighter pilot and then was a squadron leader.the gentleman on the front of the hood is remarkable in appearance to my uncle jim.i wonder if you can email me the picture so we can get it enlarged.regards jim.

Jim,

I found it on the internet sometime someplace and saved it in my G503 album. Sorry, I don't know any details. Hope this larger size helps you to determine it is your uncle Jim. PM your e-mail address and I'll send you an even larger sized picture.


http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/show...hp?photo=28272

[Ron Pier]

Jon. The bike is a 1943 Royal Enfield WDCO from an RAF contract. I'd be happy to buy the bag from you if you don't need it. My email ronpier@talk21.com

Ron

[Jason Ginn]

Hi,

I found these images on the pinetreeline.org site.

This Jeep was in service with the RCAF at the Microwave Early Warning Anti-Submarine Surface Radar site on Table Mountain at Cape Ray, Newfoundland in 1944.

Overseas the RCAF used RAF type numbering with 5 or 6 digit number. I have seen a photo of a HUP overseas with a home service DND number on the front bumper.

This Jeep is also marked with DND home service numbers while in use overseas.

The dog was named "Skipper".

J

[Larry Hayward]

Returning to an old post I have a question for Hanno and other Jeep fans. In British service in WW2 the sidelights on many Jeeps were typically moved to the mudguards, so I'm told as these lights needed to match the width of the vehicle for our road laws

However in the photo of the 'RAF' Jeep you posted with the pilots and Spitfire to one side, the side lights are still in their factory built location and the same is seen in the later photo of the RCAF Jeep from 39R Wing / 400 Sqn.

Could this mean that both Jeeps are in fact RCAF Jeeps that have been allocated direct to the Canadians? Or did we get bored with moving sidelights in 1944/45. Perhaps the Jeep numbers might reveal the production batch and who got them?

Lastly Hanno I think I have seen this photo before in a book on the 2nd TAF. I wonder if Jim Fraser ever found out if its his Uncle and what Sqn he was on. Your photo looks like the Sqn was operating 'in the field'.

[Keith Orpin]

Larry,
Most, if not all jeeps in British service during WW2 did NOT move the front sidelights from the grill to the wing, this was , I beleive a postwar mod. This observation is based upon studying lots and lots of wartime pictures of jeeps in British service.
Hope this helps
Regards
Keith

[Robin Craig]

The markings as shown in post number 10 are very familiar.

They were reproduced by IPMS (International Plastic Modellers Society) Canada a good 15 to 20 years ago in 1/35 scale.

It was one of those non standard sets of decals that they strove to champion and make available long before people has laser printers and could make their own decals for models.

I still have my unused decal sheet, buried in a 20 ft sea can somewhere. If it interests anyone, ping me and I will add you to the list for when we empty the container in the spring.

R

[Mike Cecil]

Gents,

Excuse my ignorance of Canadian matters, but I wonder just how many jeeps the RCN were officially allocated during the Second World War. The humble jeep was in great demand by all the allies, and I know that in Australia's case, very very few of them were acquired by the RAN during the war - it was not until the end of the war when the Army said 'we have enough for peacetime, thanks' that sufficient became available for official allocations to the RAN, who used them in the immediate post war period. There were some exceptions - all traceable to being allocated by local Army authorities to RAN staff serving on islands in the SWPA.

So in the case of the RCN, why would that arm of service have needed jeeps during the war years? Would that need have been sufficient to have been a greater priority for allocation than the RCAF and the Army? Is there actual proof available of jeeps being officially allocated to the RCN during WW2, as opposed to post-WW2?

I'm curious to compare the two countries in this respect.

Mike C (that Australian bloke....)

[servicepub (RIP)]

Navy, Army, Air Force jeeps on parade.

[Mike Cecil]

Clive,

Any idea of a date for this image, please?

Mike C

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Any idea of a date for this image, please?

Mike,
No date on the photo or in the album from which it was harvested. However, the soldiers are wearing respirators on their chests and sporting STEN guns in their right hands so 1942-43 would be my educated guess.

Clive

[servicepub (RIP)]

Two more RCN jeeps, at the far end of the line. Note the slightly darker colour (as well as the matelot standing on the jeep).

http://www.servicepub.com/images/dsc02432.jpg

[servicepub (RIP)]

I don't know much about RCAF vehicle census numbers so cannot state that these are in Canada, UK or...?

http://www.servicepub.com/images/rcafjeep.jpg

http://www.servicepub.com/images/rds77-108.jpg

http://www.servicepub.com/images/rcafjeep2.jpg

[servicepub (RIP)]

Note the roundel. No Canadian markings but the photo comes from the RCAF archives collection

http://www.servicepub.com/images/file0236a.jpg

[servicepub (RIP)]

Another Padre. Apparently the Type 1900 identified the vehicle as a 'car, 5cwt'

http://www.servicepub.com/images/file0235a.jpg