CGT Restoration - Update

Phil Waterman · #1 14-10-09, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walde

Pulled the 235 out the day after we came back from the convoy,the engine ... A hot rodder wanted to get rid of his 261 with only 3000 miles on it, so we made a deal for $600 and I got a duel exhaust manifold thrown in. Talk about a good day. The following weekend I re-gasket-ed the 261 and got the engine back in the CGT.

A few modifications, an oil cooler, dual exhaust, fan shroud and most important a tach!

Walde

The 261 with the dual exhaust, I assume Fenton headers solves a lot of problems. For those of you how have had problems with getting the exhaust manifold to stay sealed on your 216, 235, or 261 the split header seems to be the answer exhaust leaks and warping of the manifold from heat. The two piece header allows the manifold to deal with the heat (modern gas) without leaking. Works well on all three of the engines.

Question for you do you know which carb you have. There is a large throat and a small throat. I just found two of the large throats this summer and installed one on my 261 and there is a significant difference.

Just did my first long convoy with the 261 in my C60S (gross weight 11,000 lbs.) and even surprised some of the modern M-series trucks. Nice not to be the slowest vehicle any more. The 261 doesn't really change top end but you get up to speed faster and can hold it on the grades.

As to adding instruments like, tach, oil temp, vacuum I've been collecting the smaller 2" instruments and mounting them above the windshield once I find a tach I'll install the group with a hinged visor to hid them when the vehicle is on display.

Goes without saying you have the CMP most desired by all us CMP nuts. Great work on a great looking truck.

Maurice Donckers · #2 14-10-09, 08:01

Hi , nice that there is one on the road again . on the picture is mine , the foto was taken at Beltring last Summer , Engine is rebuilt orriginal one , rest is also as it should be , no extra`s. it will do 45 MPH without over revving it.

Walde Libera · #3 05-11-09, 18:32

Several interesting questions.

Phil/Maurice/Alex

How can you tell if you have the large throat 261 carburetor, I have one extra with the 261?

As far as the exhaust manifold goes it is a one piece cast manifold with two out lets, as far as I know probably an original Pontiac option from the 50's. My exhaust set-up uses a modern Ford muffler dual inlet 2" to a single 2 1/2" outlet. I am going to keep a close eye on the exhaust manifold gaskets as you suggested, a re-torque/tighten when its still warm would be a good idea too. Which I have done.

The major difference in power over the 235 is the 261 it can hold on in 3rd gear longer in some cases I don't have to gear down as often up hills in our geographic area in the city or on the highway.In our recent BC convoy the truck spent a lot of time on the hills in 2nd gear wound out, it just wasn't enough torque to hold on to 3rd.

As the F.A.T. will be driven frequently, I opted for reliability and drivability over the 235 or the 216. For high way travel you need to do a sustained 45MPH, 50 MPH is preferred but not possible with most WW2 and M series vehicles like an M38. At about 48MPH I had a tach reading of 3800 in the FAT, so 45 MPH is about maximum speed.

Our club plans in 2012 is to drive the Alaskan highway and an Alberta trip at the same time , I'm guessing a 4000km drive. Our trip distances are fairly long, this years convoy was @1000km total round trip over 6 days and a majority on a major highways.

As far as the tach goes, it's temporary as I need to verify the operating parameters of vehicle in general,the sounds, the gears, road noise, at least until everything becomes comfortable. Phil, Princess Auto has 2" tach's at @ $30.00 CAN.

My last job for the FAT is installing a 19 set for the rear passenger compartment. I have some pics of one from WW2 in Canada, so might as well and I can display my 19 set.

My new project is restoration of a No 27 limber (to go with the FAT) Anyone have issues mounting 900X16 NDT's on the limber wheels? I am having trouble getting them on, the limber wheels were made in Canada. They are similar in configuration to an M37 rim.

Thanks for your input gentleman!

Walde

Phil Waterman · #4 05-11-09, 23:10

Hi Wade

Interesting to hear your progress, here is the info on the carburetor differences
http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...e%20Manual.htm look at page 16-24

The NOS that I installed on my truck actually was noticeably more power full.

Cheers Phil

Just added the section of the page.

Hanno Spoelstra · #5 09-11-09, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walde

My new project is restoration of a No 27 limber (to go with the FAT) Anyone have issues mounting 900X16 NDT's on the limber wheels? I am having trouble getting them on, the limber wheels were made in Canada. They are similar in configuration to an M37 rim.

Thanks for your input gentleman!

Walde,

You have the same problem anyone working with 16" wheels encounters. Read new 9.00-16 tyres for WD split rim wheels and read the linked threads.

It all boils down to the fact that the bead diameter of the British/Canadian 16" tyres and rims are ¼" larger than those of US 16" tires and rims.

HTH,
Hanno

gordon · #6 09-11-09, 10:50

Hanno pretty much has it, not sure of the exact size, but ...

The real difference is that the US wheels / tyres have a 5 degree angle on the seat, wheras British / Canadian ones don't.

It is quite easy to fit British tyres on US rims ( I've never heard of problems doing this, despite the size difference) but doing it the other way round wouldn't be easy as you have found out.

Given the choice of;

1. Altering the rims to suit the tyres (hard)
2. Altering the tyres to suit the rims (easier, but how safe?)
3. Forcing them on with a damn great press.

I think number 3 would be my choice, with plenty of lubrication and cleaning, maybe a hair of grind back on the tyre seats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Walde,

You have the same problem anyone working with 16" wheels encounters. Read new 9.00-16 tyres for WD split rim wheels and read the linked threads.

It all boils down to the fact that the bead diameter of the British/Canadian 16" tyres and rims are ¼" larger than those of US 16" tires and rims.

HTH,
Hanno

Hanno Spoelstra · #7 09-11-09, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon

Hanno pretty much has it, not sure of the exact size, but ...

The real difference is that the US wheels / tyres have a 5 degree angle on the seat, wheras British / Canadian ones don't.

It is quite easy to fit British tyres on US rims ( I've never heard of problems doing this, despite the size difference) but doing it the other way round wouldn't be easy as you have found out.

Gordon,

I beg to differ. While the debate has been on the 0 vs. 5 degree bead taper, the real difference is the larger bead diameter of the British/Canadian 16" rims. To be precise, ¼" larger, as Mike Kelly found out by measuring.

That is why it is easy to fit tyres for British rims on US rims. I know of cases where the British tyres would not center properly on US rims because of the larger bead diameter, leading to wobbling etc.

Regards,
Hanno

Maurice Donckers · #8 09-11-09, 12:28

Hi , usually the limbers had road pattern , I still got some if you need them , and I used used ferret tires to put on the 15CWT`s , and 25Pr .The bead of the ferret tires is tick enough to take some material away , steel bands are deep in the material. I just put them on a big tire cutting machine , and machined some rubber away without trouble.

gordon · #9 09-11-09, 16:48

if Mike has measured it then fair enough. I'll just add that I have fitted UK (Landrover 101) tyres to Dodge wheels and they were a neat fit, with no rattling or centering problems. there is probably more work to be done here on the exact sizes, angles, and fits, as a 5 degree chamfer across a 1" bead isn't going to give 1/4" difference.

Gordon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I beg to differ. While the debate has been on the 0 vs. 5 degree bead taper, the real difference is the larger bead diameter of the British/Canadian 16" rims. To be precise, ¼" larger, as Mike Kelly found out by measuring.

That is why it is easy to fit tyres for British rims on US rims. I know of cases where the British tyres would not center properly on US rims because of the larger bead diameter, leading to wobbling etc.