WW2 Rank appointments

[Bill Miller]

The past week or so I have been tabulating some nominal roll information and it has made me curious as to what exactly were the subtle differences between:

Acting Lance Corporal > L/Cpl > A/Cpl
Acting Lance Sergeant > L/Sgt > A/Sgt

Forgive me, but from my civilian background, these "intermediate" appointments seem kinda pointless. A title (and presumably responsibility) without a pay increase? I see many of these same men were also granted reversions "at their own request".

Thanks,
Bill.

[malcolm erik bogaert]

as far as I know a lance sgt was a rank perculiar to the Guards regiments regards malcolm

[Clive_Dakers]

Acting rank is a temporary rank assigned to a person who is performing the duties normally performed by someone of higher rank. He receives pay and conditions appropriate to the higher rank.

[Rob MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Clive_Dakers

Acting rank is a temporary rank assigned to a person who is performing the duties normally performed by someone of higher rank. He receives pay and conditions appropriate to the higher rank.

I remember 'acting' positions as being temporary appointments to fill a temp. vacancy, but with no increase in pay.

'Lance Corporal' has been described as the worst job in the Army (to which I can personally attest - there is a short sharp learning-curve!), and although the posn of 'L/Sgt' was extinct by my day I understood it to be a probationary position that the soldier could be 'reduced' from without stigma if he proved unequal to the task.

At least that's how it was in the Seaforths.

[klambie]

Also a civilian who has struggled with understanding how this stuff worked. Changes since the end of the war, variations for Guards, Rifles etc. units just make it more complex. So with a grain of salt, my understanding for the Second World War as follows:

• Acting Rank had the pay and allowances of the rank
• Brevet Rank did not have the pay and allowances of the rank (I've never encountered a real example of a Brevet rank
• Appointment to an acting rank could be temporary (either by planning, by unsuitability of the soldier, by request of the soldier) or could be made permanent through confirmation in the higher rank. I've heard 3 months as the period in which you had to do the job before being confirmed.
• L/Sgt was also used by Rifle regiments, with half the detachments in the A/Tk and Mortar platoons being commanded by a L/Sgt (the other half by a Sgt)

Bear in mind that in the Second World War, rank structure within a unit was fixed (ie. there were a static number of Cpls allowed), so you only got promoted to fill a gap in a higher rank. In a rifle platoon, a man promoted to Cpl was promoted in order to lead a section, not simply to reflect his experience, etc. While I am sure it is not entirely correct, my broad understanding of the current CF is that ranks like Cpl or M/Cpl are as reflective of time in as much as responsibility, though I admit to ignorance of how the intersection of seniority and responsibility is resolved.

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by klambie

While I am sure it is not entirely correct, my broad understanding of the current CF is that ranks like Cpl or M/Cpl are as reflective of time in as much as responsibility, though I admit to ignorance of how the intersection of seniority and responsibility is resolved.

My experience in the C.F. is somewhat dated, as I last served in 2001, but I don't think much has changed to date. The rank of Corporal is achieved as a result of two things: time in and training. There isn't a whole lot of official responsibility devolving from being a Corporal, at least in the Engineers as we called ourselves "Glorified Privates" and worked hand-in-hand with both Privates (Untrained) and Privates (Trained) without anyone ever pulling rank. As you had completed your "Fives" (Qualification Level 5) as a Corporal you were expected to be skilled enough in you MOC to be left alone and run a small crew. You got your "Threes" and your "Fives" at CFSME (Canadian Forces School of Military Engineering) which was in CFB Chilliwack when I went through and is now in CFB Gagetown. To become Master Corporal, you had to be a Corporal, completed your JLC (Junior Leadership Course) and there had to be an opening for that rank and your MOC in your unit. As a Master Corporal your responsibilities increased: you could bring charges against a Private or Corporal, were expected to know Drill commands, and could be asked to handle money, such as the taking of cash at mess functions and were now able to become a certified Range Officer.

CHIMO! Derek.

[malcolm erik bogaert]

my last OC was appointed Brevet Lt.Col...but didnt get any extra pay or allowances...as at the time our Regiment was the underdog of the MOD....nice to see that things have at last changed and we are now top of the tree!Long Live the Pratorian Guard!!! regards malcolm